July 4, 2002

                  Summary by Dan Ketler

                 Click here for link to copies of debate up to July 4, 2002

                 Here are a few posts that came after I withdrew from the "debate."

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                  Summary

When this page is completed, you will see clicked-to references to the exact points of the debate up to July 4, 2002

This page will mainly consist of my commentary, with referenced facts to back up my opinions.

Tbe following quotes, from John Benneth, are taken from this page.
 

                  The protocol in question was posted in April 1999
                  at the insistence of Alain Jean-Mairet.

Randi ignored it and then announced in May that
Noble prize laureate Brian Josephson was collaborating
with Jacques Benveniste to apply for the award and that
he was dropping me in favor of them. Syd then contacted
Josephson, and Josephson wrote back to claim that Randi
was lying, that he wasn't interested in the Challenge.

Brian Josephson  even wrote to me to assure me he wasn't usurping
my claim. Randi then recanted, but still insisted that he was deferring a
test of my claim to see what the outcome of the of the J & B test would
be with the APS.

    Eventually, in July, Randi wrote to me and asked me to send him one
of my tests. I did, the yeast test, and he said that if nothing had
happened by August he would offer me the award . . . again.

   When August arrived, Randi fled to Las Vegas to meet with Penn and
Teller, who have made the second largest pledge to the Challenge, behind
the million pledged by Adams. By this time he had stopped corresponding
with me, having cut me out of any discussion of the protocol, instead
choosing to use Syd and Alain as "intermediaries", arguing over each
point in the protocol.

    This was against his own "rules" about working with the applicant on
the protocol.

     Being suspicious at this point of his goodwill, I then inquired at
Goldman Sachs about the validity of the Challenge, and they responded by
demanding that Randi remove their name from his website.

     Randi went ballistic and began accusing me of harassing Goldman
Sachs, and then he started insisting that I was crazy, and demanded that
I get a notarized statement from a clinical psychologist ascertaining my
sanity, and indemnify him against aggravating a mental condition.

     Last week, Gary Schwartz, a clinical psychologist and professor of
psychiatry who interviewed me in Tucson at the Human Energy Systems Lab
on November 2, 1999, met with Randi and Andrew Harter in Florida, and
reports to me that Randi is still insisting that I'm insane.

     Schwartz claims Randi is now throwing around generalizations about
me and others. Schwartz implies that his actions appear to be pretty
sad.

     In a phone interview Randi told Winston Wu that he would still
provide a test of my claim, but that I keep changing the protocol.

    The protocol, has been and always will be the same. It is not a test
of me or my talents, but a test of homeopathic commercial products,
which Randi says are no different than plain water. In January 1999 he
agreed that a test separating homeopathic products, (serially agitated
dilutes . . SADs) from the base of which they were dynamized would end
the argument, that if I produced that test, it would win the award.

    The test he has called for has already been done by a French team
using a dielectric stress measure, it has been replicated at least
twice, once by an American team and once by an Indian team, and the
results of all three trials have been published.

     We currently have abstracts of these and other trials I can send
you . . .  two dozen studies of the physical properties of serially
agitated dilutes (homeopathic remedies). We also have dozens of more
abstracts of studies that report on the biological reactions to SADs.

     Any of these tests, both physical measures and biological measures,
show a marked difference between "homeopathic" dynamized water based
solutions and the plain non dynamized water solutions from which the
test items are prepared. These are tests that demonstrate that
homeopathic products have energetic qualities induced by the process of
succussion and dilution.

   I have repeatedly asked Randi for a test date and place, and for him
to sign his Challenge and return my application, all of which he has
failed to do. His reasoning for this has been that he won't schedule a
test prior to there being an agreed upon protocol, which he now refuses
to discuss with me, and he has implied that there can be no protocol
until there has been a preliminary test, which he refuses to schedule.

So far he has never contacted me except to write to me and others
by e-mail to try to intimidate me with predictions of failure, orders to
"get on with it", statements about who I am , what I'm going to do,
what's going to or not going to happen or with and out and out libel.
And this happened prior to any evidence that I saw of charges against
him of his assaults on minors.

The basis of Schwartz' thesis is that in accepting homeopathy, we
are basically forced to acknowledge a systemic memory system for the
Universe. My studies have concluded the same. As with psychic phenomena,
there is the threat of loss of ego, of separateness and identity,
basically a fear of exposure and condemnation. However, within this
emerging creed, it becomes impossible to lay evil at men's feet, because
it presupposes a destiny none of us can change. WIthout recognizing that
free will and choice are illusions, the threat of exposure and spiritual
obloquy is more than some people can handle.

In recognizing the principals of spiritual unity one must confront
his personal demons.

I for one have not found this to be easy. I presume for others it may
be impossible. But none of this gets Randi off the hook for my $1.6
million.

If Randi still thinks that the test called for can't be done
successfully, then why does he have to rely on character assassination
to avoid it? Why not just by pass the ad hominems and demonstrate once
and for all all of these studies contradicting his null hypothesis are
invalid? I suggest that the proposed methods be performed by Bell labs
or a forensic testing facility, or some similar competent testing
facility and that the items in question be a wide variety of commercial
preparations taken right off the shelf.

The Skeptic Challenge now to Randi and his foundation, to Robert Park
and the American Physical Society and others supporting the null
hypothesis for homeopathy is to disprove the studies reported on in my
collected abstracts.

My bet is that they won't because they can't, and they know it.

Go check the local supermarket, by the way. Our local store now
carries shelves of these products from a dozen different manufactures.
Bayer is now considering getting into the business. Homeopathic products
are a billion dollar a year industry growing at 20% a year. My research
doesn't address the numerous double blind clinical trials or the meta
analysis reported in the Lancet, or the Jonas immunological studies
conducted for the National Institute of Health. There are millions who
swear by these products for treating people with any serious condition.
And not only can you see their effects on animals of all kinds, but you
can see their double blind effects on plants. Since when do plants and
dumb animals react to placebos in double blind studies?

     The evidence is overwhelming. The case against homeopathy is a
rapidly losing cause.

John Benneth