This page is about the points that show the destrucive
nature of Ken Kizer (aka "CFA")

by Dan Kettler © 1999-2000

Updated May 21, 2000

8 part outline about CFA - Ken Kizer


To go back to the first CFA page.

The main purposes of this page are:

                              1. To get right to the point, for the less relevant writing I'm cutting down the print size,
                                              making it italic, and cutting some out.

                              2. To provide proofs.  Links are indicated

Where DEJA is referenced, it may be required to click at "power search" when you reach that site.  There you
will be given the opportunity to select the period you are searching for, as well as author, newsgroup, keywords,
etc.  For a listing of who's who in alt.paranormal/alt.astrology, click here.  You may find it necessary to verify
what the listed people, as a habit, write.  If you do, then utilize DEJA.  Deja does not list all posts, and some,
such as Ken Kizer and Bob Officer have decided to have their most recent posts not recorded by DEJA.

If you are referred to other pages of this site, that writing is not considered proof.  It may then be necessary
to use DEJA or other references to verify.  Some references on these pages do contain automatic links to
certain DEJA posts.

Where DK is marked in red, it indicates my writing only on this web page, not in the newsgroups.

Bob Officer's posts, with my comments and that of others are at this link.

From: Dan Kettler <>
Subject:  Re: CFA "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:50:30 -0700
Message-ID: <>

DK:   Censorship by deception to Admins and the Internet
          Service Providers about individuals This brings
          temporary or permanent discontinuation of service.
          [quoted from NCAT]

CFA:   Ed ... had ...astrologer's accounts temporarily
           suspended for minor off-topic infractions last year.

DK:    "Minor off-topic infractions" is the point.  The
            above was edited for brevity.  The fact that
            the infractions were from Ed's charter,
            and the opinion is that it is "overly restrictive"
            is not relevant.  It was the actual charter
            brought about at the origin of the newsgroup,
            alt.astrology.metapsych. Little else, but the
            raving of fanatics objecting, says it's supposedly
         not valid..

DK:  Look at "censorship by deception to Admins."

DK:  Look at

DK:  Look at "minor...infractions."

DK:  Note, I write of "deception," and you write of
        "minor...infractions."  There is a difference.

DK:  One is censorship, and the other could be
         construed as pettiness or excess.  Big

DK:  Learn logic.  Learn reading skills.  Learn to think.


From: Dan Kettler <>
Subject: Re: CFA Re: Hatred--Sickness and NCAT
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 02:02:56 GMT

I, Dan Kettler, wrote:

I make periodic announcments, which if you, Ken Kizer, would not obsessively write the same
objections to, which I've answered repeatedly, I would not announce them more than about
2 or 3 times a month to alt.astrology.  Your objections are about my announcing the fact of
the NCAT document.

CFA:  That's up to you. It just means you **can't ignore me. Isn't
CFA:  that what you counsel others to do?

DK: It's to ignore debate about whether the paranormal/astrology are
real.  I encourage people to reply to obsessive people like you.

DK:    Why don't you **ignore me?  Why do you, instead, ignore the hate mongering of
           PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF), which is actually destructive writing?

          Then, you *attack me for proven factual writing.

          You complain about me supposedly being off-topic, but my posting is more
          on-topic than the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC hate mongering
          you condone, or your obsessively repeated objections to what I post.

[continued below]

From: CFA•
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: Kettler, Ass, Kicked. Repeat.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <15019856.202f840@13.11>
NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.75.93
X-No-Archive: yes

WS = Widdershins

>> >WS:  I can be a lot more vicious than...        <see DEJA archived post of this statement>

                                                                               <see this DEJA archived post>

>> >DK:  Okay, we have the typical PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC threats.
>> >DK:  NCAT shows how "vicious" the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS
>> >        (PSF) are.
>CFA: Oh, stop. You don't have any idea what he'll do.

DK: denial

DK:  Previously, Marsha (see above, "I can be a lot more vicious..." ) has been threatened.  She has,
              and still does support Edmond H. Wollmann.  One can see, by the wording in posts about her,
              that it is because of her support that she's been severly attacked in the newsgroups.

             Another person was also attacked, apparently because of her support of Edmond Wollmann.
             The two persons, shown as examples here, are not associated with one another.  This illustrates
             the similarity in reactions to those who have supported Edmond Wollmann, and it lends
             weight to the hypothesis that fear of lying attacks is the reason that few publicly support Wollmann.
             More people than  shown in the above examples have started to support EHW in the
             newsgroups, been attacked, and then ceased such public support.

* Click here for:

                    "...paranoid, delusional rants about alleged

From: CFA• <  @.>
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:06:11 -0500
Message-ID: <19708792.3650e38@13.11>
CFA: Being nice takes people skills.

DK: Ken Kizer, with his "people skills" has the most
        degenerate, sick, liars on USENET as buddies.

From: CFA• <  @.>
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:06:11 -0500

DK: That's [Bob Officer is] your ***friend.

CFA: Uh, yeah, I'd say so.

CFA: Ain't it nice when people work out their ****differences?

DK: Bob Officer is one you call a ***"friend."
        Let's see what he is like.

DK:  From the above referenced web pages, one can easily
         see that he is irrational. From your writing
         one can see you are irrational.  You have a form
        of communication that two irrational,
         nasty, and deceptive people can use
         to work out differences.

        You are both obsessive-compulsive, so
         I can see the compatibility.

DK:  On the other hand, it's not the ****differences
         of opinion that you and I have which prevent
         rational discussion, but rather your inability
         to be rational.  It's impossible for me to continue
         discussing what is obvious illogical nonsense.

         I can only point out the obvious:  that it is

        You are so irrational that you hardly ever rebut
        my points.  You repeat the old points you
        had made previously.


From: Dan Kettler <>
Subject: Re: CFA Re: Hatred--Sickness and NCAT
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 02:02:56 GMT [continued]

CFA:  It's my choice to respond to your posts if I like.

DK:  Yes, but you appear obsessive to many people, because
         you respond repetitively, and with obvious nonsense.

DK:  The PSF like you, but rational people see through you.

CFA: [/cfa.html] 40 screens of fear.

DK: What fear?  I supposedly fear you?

DK: I write about you to discredit you to those who have
DK: not had the chance to investigate your writing.  You
DK: are not credible.  That is not "fear," it's rational
DK: and careful exposure.  It's what the Internet needs.

DK:  Because you attack me constantly, it is protection.
DK:  I protect myself by exposing you, by discrediting you,
DK:  and by proving everything I write about you.

> CFA: The vast majority of your posts concern the
>      fear that people are being prevented from
>      posting when and where they want.
> DK:  The vast majority of my posts do not say that
>      people are prevented from posting when and where
>      they want.

> DK:  And, when I do write that people are prevented from
           posting, (not the "vast majority of posts") it's not
           out of "fear".

> CFA: ...who brought the whole idea of NCAT into aa?
> DK:  I did on the name "NCAT" and it's my right.  Actually
>      EHW writes of censorship, and the activities I refer to
>      as "terrorism."  Pete Stapleton has used the
>      word "terrorism" in reference to Usenet
>      activity of PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF).

> CFA: Who insists on continuing to harp on it?

> DK:  You, obviously.  See the /cfa.html page, and
>          links which PROVE you "continue to harp on it."

> CFA:  Who MUST defend it at any cost?

> DK:   What "cost"?

> > >DK:  So, if this gets repeated by me, why?
> CFA:  Because you're insecure about your position.

No, it gets repeated because like a dog that chases
its own tail and bites it off, you continue to bring
up what would have been written 2 or 3 times per month
in alt.astrology, and turn it into many more times than that.

DK:  "What you resist, persists."

DK:  Then I show what discredits you at cfa.html

DK:  1. You indicate an inability to utilize logicThis page explains logic.

From: CFA• <  @.>
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:06:11 -0500
Message-ID: <19708792.3650e38@13.11>

CFA:  You've attempted to erect a shrine to your belief in
           censorship and terrorism, and you exhibit a certain
           kind of logic. Problem is, it's built on a false premise.
           Your conclusions are incorrect because you start with
           a false premise.

DK:   The fact of Net Censorship and Terrorism are not the
           premises, they are the conclusions.  As for the premises
           being correct, they have been proven..

       2. You indicate obsessive-compulsive behavior.

       3. Your reading comprehension example 2 is poor

       4. you are blatantly dishonest example 2 is your

       5  Your posts show you are evasive

       6  You show you are paranoid...

           a. ...of EHW, and your show trust of  those who are
               actually destroying newsgroups.  You exhibit
               delusion. Asserting the "savior" motive
               to EHW is paranoia.  You have nothing to base
               that assessment upon, and you exhibit irrational
               assessments of his motives from other statements.

           b. ...of me, Dan Kettler.  I will cite two
           examples, example2 of many instances, here.

      7.    You know practically nothing of FAQs, Usenet,
             or spam, but you write like a "know-it-all."

      8. Your writing is lying, nasty, defaming, and abusive.

Subject: Re: Part II: Censorship
From: dankettler <>
Message-ID: <>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 14:36:20 -0800

In article <>
CFA wrote:

CFA: Ridicule is an unlawful act? That's paranoia, Dan.

DK: No, your assessment of my writing, that I supposedly
wrote or meant that "ridicule is an unlawful act" is
indicative of your lack of reading comprehension.


Subject: Re: Part II: Censorship
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:00:51 GMT

Following quote, by CFA, from NCAT:

> >"2.  Censorship by deception to Admins and the Internet Service
> >Providers about individuals This brings temporary or permanent
> >discontinuation of service."

CFA: Legitimate complaints have been lodged...<snip>

DK: As usual, CFA - Ken Kizer knows absolutely nothing about
        what he's writing.  He writes like a "know-it-all,"
        unable to investigate proofs at the above web site.

> What "legitimate complaints"?   I have proven that bogus
> complaints have been made, and they are a form of censorship.
> They were effective.  Then the actions were changed
> once the ISPs realized what fanatics were doing, writing
> bogus complaints to them.

> The proofs are at NCAT.


From: (Bobovil) [Dan Kettler]
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Are people being censored on the NET?
Date: 12 Feb 2000 00:53:19 GMT
Message-ID: <>

>CFA: Your threats of legal action for "libel"
>CFA: are paranoid overreactions.

>DK:  Your statement that I threatened legal action
>DK:  for "libel," calling such threats that do not exist,
>DK:  "paranoid" overreactions, shows your paranoia,
>DK:  and your delusion.

[above red portion was not posted from AOL]

CFA:  ...but your people [Edmond H. Wollmann and and DK] skills suck.

DK:  "people skills"?

     What could that mean to someone irrational like you?

DK:   I get along with people: sane, rational, civil people.

     I don't get along with sick people who write denigrating
     remarks, and lie about me constantly.  I'm not required
     to, and most sane, intelligent, rational people see it
     the same way.  This is a reasonable person's standard.

     I get along with sane people.  You get along with sick
     people, and you demonstrate an antagonistic attitude
     toward people who exhibit the ability to write logically,
     and who are proponents of the paranormal.

     Lucianarcy, is one example.  All I see from you are
     denigrating remarks about her.  They are quoted on
     the bobofficer.html pages.

CFA, Ken Kizer wrote:

          "I did a search on "Lucianarchy". You are
          unlikely to get a coherent answer from him/her,
          just paranoia, hysteria, distortion, fear,
          and loathing."
DK:  Where are your "people skills"?

     For the most part, the sickest writers to Usenet treat
     you well.

     What does that fact indicate?

From: Dan Kettler <>
Subject: CFA frustration Ken Kizer blows up!
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 00:20:51 GMT

DK:  Announcements a few times a month are not "harping."

CFA: More bull**it. YOU started NCAT;
         YOU created dozens of pages
         to justify your fear campaign.

DK:  Firemen help schools conduct fire drills.

DK:  Policement help citizens protect themselves
        and their property, by educating people in

DK:  Is this education a "fear campaign" conducted
         by police and firemen?

DK:  I wrote facts, I proved them.  That's not a "fear
DK:  campaign."  I also show ways to deal with this
DK:  censorship and terrorism...

CFA:  YOU insisted on xposting it to aa. YOU
CFA:  deal with what it generates.

DK:   No, you deal with what it is generating.
DK:   You think that intelligent, rational people
DK:   think you are mentally stable?

DK:   Do you think the cheers from raving fanatics proves
DK:   you are correct with your obsessive-compuslive ranting?

DK:   If you do think that, you are seriously deluded.
DK:   cfa.html is read by intelligent people, and they
DK:   do not believe you are very stable.

DK:   There has been much fear generated by the sick
DK:   fanatics who attack anyone supporting EHW or myself.
DK:   That's why you don't see much support on USENET.

DK:   That fact is written about, and linked from cfa.html

DK:   It shows you trying to evade that fact.

DK:  I cite NCAT to educate people, to help them, so they
        may see, as newbies, what is going on here before it
        happens to them, and so they may know what to do to
        protect themselves, and when these things happen,
        what to do to stop it.

DK:  I wrote one time, not so long ago, that other TERRORIST
        activity goes on, which I'm not in a position to report
        proofs of yet.

DK:  This happens, mainly, to women.  They are more vulnerable
         to Internet attacks of a sexual nature.  They are depicted,
         falsely, as if they were having sex with animals on
         Web pages. Their actual faces are used.  Their data
         is forged in USENET postings, and they are falsely depicted
         as writing gross things that many women are ashamed of.
         This is often placed in newsgroups they do not frequent, so
         that the defamation is not known by them for some time.

        I know of one woman who did nothing but write of the
        paranormal in alt.paranormal, and all sorts of nasty things
        were written in her name, as if she had written them in other
        newsgroups.  This was a deterrence, to stop her from writing
        about the paranormal in alt.paranormal.

       Women are harrassed on the telephone, in a sexual manner, by
       Internet participants, just for posting favorably about Art
       Bell, a paranormal talk-show host.  I have written about the
       attacks upon Art Bell, and this is real terrorism shown on the
       NCAT pages, with links that prove what has been going on.

      In the FAQ, Art Bell's wife is accused of
      being a whore.  This is very sick behavior on the part of

     This is disgusting, and reprehensible, and Ken Kizer's attacks
     against me for exposing this, and doing what I can to educate
     people so they can effectively deal with it, shows him for
     what he is.

From: CFA•
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 11:03:05 -0500
Message-ID: <15016808.e5e828@13.11>
X-No-Archive: yes


DK:You never bother [complaining about] the off-topic, lying,
DK: denigrating, writing of PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS.(PSF)

CFA: The skeptics are honest about their motives and attitudes.
CFA: I can deal with that.

CFA: What I don't appreciate is someone who pretends to be
CFA: "saving" the newsgroup and newsgroup participants from
CFA: "terrorism" and "murder".

DK:   I never stated I was "saving," only educating people.
DK:   Certainly, I never referred to newsgroup particpants
DK:   as being threatened by murder.

DK:  The above is an exhibition of paranoia.  KK (CFA)
DK:  writes, positively, without question, that my writing
DK:  is "pretend [ing]."

DK:  To assert he knows, is delusion.  His irrational fear
DK:  manifests with obsessive writing against my mention
DK:  of NCAT.

DK:  His fear manifests by his insistence that PSF are honest
DK:  about their motives and attitudes (and many of them have been
DK:  proven deceptive repeatedly) while my motives are
DK:  assumed dishonest.  He has no authentic history of
DK:  lies from me.  This delusion and denial.

DK:  In addition to this statement, the history of his actions,
DK:  with written words, show him acting out his paranoia.
DK:  His actions have been obsessive complaints about EHW and
DK:  myself, and absense of such complaints about PSF.

From: CFA•
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: Kettler, Ass, Kicked. Repeat.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <15019856.202f840@13.11>
NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.75.93
X-No-Archive: yes

>DK:  I say you are "sick" but I have
>         examples to show it.

CFA: All wrapped up in your tiny little world, Dan.

CFA: Are you surrounded by spooks in your neighborhood?

CFA: Is your phone tapped?

CFA: Do large Ford sedans follow you all over town?

CFA: Are there black helicopters (with no identifying markings)
          hovering close now?

CFA: Are people recording your every keystroke?

CFA: Do they have records of all your financial dealings?

CFA: Is everyone that disagrees with you here out to murder you?

CFA: Does your reflection scare you?

CFA: Do you ever get time off?

CFA: Are you having fun?

DK:  All his nasty accusations, above, of paranoia have no basis in fact.
         I see them as projections of his own mentality.


From: CFA•
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: Kettler, Ass, Kicked. Repeat.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <15019856.202f840@13.11>
X-No-Archive: yes

>> >DK:  Pretty sick deception, isn't it?

CFA: >> Pretty sick pair of people, [EHW, DK] aren't you?