This page is about the points
that show the destrucive
nature of Ken Kizer (aka "CFA")
by Dan Kettler © 1999-2000
Updated May 21, 2000
8 part outline about CFA
- Ken Kizer
PAGE 3
To go back to the first CFA page.
The main purposes of this page are:
1. To get right to the point, for the less relevant writing I'm
cutting down the print size,
making it italic, and cutting some out.
2. To provide proofs. Links are indicated
Where DEJA is referenced, it may be
required to click at "power search" when you reach that site. There
you
will be given the opportunity to select the period you are searching
for, as well as author, newsgroup, keywords,
etc. For a listing of who's who in
alt.paranormal/alt.astrology, click here.
You may find it necessary to verify
what the listed people, as a habit, write. If you do, then utilize
DEJA.
Deja does not list all posts, and some,
such as Ken Kizer and Bob Officer have
decided to have their most recent posts not recorded by DEJA.
If you are referred to other pages of this site, that writing is not
considered proof. It may then be necessary
to use DEJA or other references to verify. Some references on
these pages do contain automatic links to
certain DEJA posts.
Where DK is marked in red, it indicates my writing only on this web page, not in the newsgroups.
Bob Officer's posts, with my comments and that of others are at this link.
From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Subject: Re: CFA "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:50:30 -0700
Message-ID: <389F8476.36302465@psicounsel.com>
DK: Censorship by deception to Admins and the Internet
Service Providers
about individuals This brings
temporary or
permanent discontinuation of service.
[quoted from
NCAT]
CFA: Ed ... had ...astrologer's accounts temporarily
suspended
for minor off-topic infractions last year.
DK:
"Minor off-topic infractions" is the point. The
above was edited for brevity. The fact that
the infractions were from Ed's charter,
and the opinion is that it is "overly restrictive"
is not relevant. It was the actual charter
brought about at the origin of the newsgroup,
alt.astrology.metapsych. Little else, but the
raving of fanatics objecting, says it's supposedly
not
valid..
DK: Look at "censorship by deception to Admins."
DK: Look at http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html
DK: Look at "minor...infractions."
DK: Note, I write of "deception," and you write of
"minor...infractions."
There is a difference.
DK: One is censorship, and the other could be
construed as pettiness
or excess. Big
difference.
DK: Learn logic. Learn reading skills. Learn to think.
http://www.psicounsel.com/cfa3.html
<snip>
From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Subject: Re: CFA Re: Hatred--Sickness and NCAT
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 02:02:56 GMT
I, Dan Kettler, wrote:
I make periodic announcments, which if you, Ken Kizer, would not obsessively
write the same
objections to, which I've answered repeatedly, I would
not announce them more than about
2 or 3 times a month to alt.astrology. Your objections are about
my announcing the fact of
the NCAT document.
CFA: That's up to you. It just means you **can't
ignore me. Isn't
CFA: that what you counsel others to do?
DK: It's to ignore debate
about whether the paranormal/astrology are
real. I encourage people to reply
to obsessive people like you.
DK: Why don't you
**ignore me? Why do you, instead, ignore the hate mongering
of
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS
(PSF), which is actually destructive writing?
Then, you *attack me for proven factual writing.
You complain
about me supposedly being off-topic, but my posting is more
on-topic than
the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC hate mongering
you condone,
or your obsessively repeated objections to what I post.
From: CFA•
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: Kettler, Ass, Kicked. Repeat.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <15019856.202f840@13.11>
NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.75.93
X-No-Archive: yes
WS = Widdershins
>> >WS: I can be a lot more vicious than... <see DEJA archived post of this statement>
<see this DEJA archived post>
>> >DK: Okay, we have the typical PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC threats.
>
>> >DK: NCAT shows how "vicious" the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS
>> > (PSF) are.
>
> http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html
>
>CFA: Oh, stop. You don't have any idea what he'll do.
DK: denial
DK: Previously,
Marsha
(see above, "I can be a lot more vicious..." ) has been
threatened. She has,
and still does support Edmond H. Wollmann. One can see, by the wording
in posts about her,
that it is because of her support that she's been severly attacked in the
newsgroups.
Another person was also attacked, apparently
because of her support of Edmond Wollmann.
The two persons, shown as examples here, are not associated with one another.
This illustrates
the similarity in reactions to those who have supported Edmond Wollmann,
and it lends
weight to the hypothesis that fear of lying attacks is the reason that
few publicly support Wollmann.
More people than shown in the above examples have started to support
EHW in the
newsgroups, been attacked, and then ceased such public support.
* Click here for:
"...paranoid, delusional rants about alleged
censorship..."
From: CFA• < @.>CFA: Being nice takes people skills.
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:06:11 -0500
Message-ID: <19708792.3650e38@13.11>
DK: Ken Kizer, with his "people skills" has the most
degenerate, sick, liars
on USENET as buddies.
From: CFA• < @.>
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:06:11 -0500
DK: That's [Bob Officer is] your ***friend.
CFA: Uh, yeah, I'd say so.
CFA: Ain't it nice when people work out their ****differences?
DK: Bob Officer
is one you call a ***"friend."
Let's
see what he is like.
DK: From
the above referenced web pages, one can easily
see that he is irrational. From your writing
one can see you are irrational. You have a form
of
communication that two irrational,
nasty, and deceptive people can use
to work out differences.
You
are both obsessive-compulsive, so
I can see the compatibility.
DK:
On the other hand, it's not the ****differences
of opinion that you and I have which prevent
rational discussion, but rather your inability
to be rational. It's impossible for me to continue
discussing what is obvious illogical nonsense.
I can only point
out the obvious: that it is
nonsense.
You are so irrational that
you hardly ever rebut
my points. You repeat
the old points you
had made previously.
From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Subject: Re: CFA Re: Hatred--Sickness and NCAT
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 02:02:56 GMT [continued]
CFA: It's my choice to respond to your posts if I like.
DK: Yes, but you appear obsessive to many people,
because
you
respond repetitively, and with obvious nonsense.
DK: The PSF like you, but rational people see through you.
CFA: [/cfa.html] 40 screens of fear.
DK: What fear? I supposedly fear you?
DK: I write about you to discredit you to those who
have
DK: not had the chance to investigate your writing.
You
DK: are not credible. That is not "fear," it's
rational
DK: and careful exposure. It's what the Internet
needs.
DK: Because you attack me constantly, it is protection.
DK: I protect myself by exposing you, by discrediting
you,
DK: and by proving everything I write about
you.
> CFA: The vast majority of your posts concern the
> fear that people are
being prevented from
> posting when and where
they want.
>
> DK: The vast majority of my posts do not say
that
> people are prevented
from posting when and where
> they want.
> DK: And, when I do write that people are prevented
from
posting, (not the "vast majority of posts") it's not
out of "fear".
> CFA: ...who brought the whole idea of NCAT into aa?
>
> DK: I did on the name "NCAT" and it's
my right. Actually
> EHW writes of censorship,
and the activities I refer to
> as "terrorism."
Pete Stapleton has used the
> word "terrorism" in
reference to Usenet
> activity of PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS
(PSF).
> CFA: Who insists on continuing to harp on it?
> DK: You, obviously. See the /cfa.html
page, and
>
links which PROVE you "continue to harp on it."
> CFA: Who MUST defend it at any cost?
> DK: What "cost"?
> > >DK: So, if this gets repeated by me, why?
>
> CFA: Because you're insecure about your position.
No, it gets repeated because like a dog that chases
its own tail and bites it off, you continue to bring
up what would have been written 2 or 3 times per month
in alt.astrology, and turn it into many more times than that.
DK: "What you resist, persists."
DK: Then I show what discredits you at cfa.html
DK: 1. You indicate an inability to utilize logic. This page explains logic.
2. You indicate obsessive-compulsive behavior.From: CFA• < @.>
Subject: Re: Dan Kettler: "logic," and "people skills"
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:06:11 -0500
Message-ID: <19708792.3650e38@13.11>CFA: You've attempted to erect a shrine to your belief in
censorship and terrorism, and you exhibit a certain
kind of logic. Problem is, it's built on a false premise.
Your conclusions are incorrect because you start with
a false premise.DK: The fact of Net Censorship and Terrorism are not the
premises, they are the conclusions. As for the premises
being correct, they have been proven..
3. Your reading comprehension example 2 is poor
4. you are blatantly
dishonest example 2 is your
word-twisting
propaganda
5 Your posts show you are evasive
6 You show you are paranoid...
a. ...of
EHW, and your show trust of those who are
actually destroying newsgroups. You exhibit
delusion. Asserting the "savior" motive
to EHW is paranoia. You have nothing to base
that assessment upon, and you exhibit irrational
assessments of his motives from other statements.
b. ...of
me, Dan Kettler. I will cite two
examples,
example2
of many instances, here.
7. You know practically
nothing of FAQs, Usenet,
or spam, but
you write like a "know-it-all."
8. Your writing is lying, nasty, defaming, and abusive.
Subject: Re: Part II: Censorship
From: dankettler <dankettlerNOdaSPAM@hotmail.com.invalid>
Message-ID: <0006e5dd.2b52292a@usw-ex0105-040.remarq.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 14:36:20 -0800
In article <6ao24so6coqagr7etsjerirroc1kg3bfs0@news.mindspring.com>
CFA wrote:
CFA: Ridicule is an unlawful act? That's paranoia, Dan.
DK: No, your assessment of my writing, that I supposedly
wrote or meant that "ridicule is an unlawful act" is
indicative of your lack of reading comprehension.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Part II: Censorship
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:00:51 GMT
Following quote, by CFA, from NCAT:
> >"2. Censorship by deception to Admins and the Internet Service
> >Providers about individuals This brings temporary or permanent
> >discontinuation of service."
CFA: Legitimate complaints have been lodged...<snip>
DK: As usual, CFA - Ken Kizer knows absolutely nothing about
what he's writing.
He writes like a "know-it-all,"
unable to investigate proofs
at the above web site.
DK:
> What "legitimate complaints"? I have proven
that bogus
> complaints have been made, and they are a form of censorship.
> They were effective. Then the actions were changed
> once the ISPs realized what fanatics were doing, writing
> bogus complaints to them.
> The proofs are at NCAT.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: bobovil@aol.com (Bobovil) [Dan Kettler]
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Are people being censored on the NET?
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com
Date: 12 Feb 2000 00:53:19 GMT
Message-ID: <20000211195319.01508.00000468@ng-bh1.aol.com>
>CFA: Your threats of legal action for "libel"
>CFA: are paranoid overreactions.
>DK: Your statement that I threatened legal
action
>DK: for "libel," calling such threats that do not exist,
>DK: "paranoid" overreactions, shows
your paranoia,
>DK: and your delusion.
[above red portion was not posted from AOL]
CFA: ...but your people [Edmond H. Wollmann and and DK] skills suck.
DK: "people skills"?
What could that mean to someone irrational like you?
DK: I get along with people: sane, rational, civil people.
I don't get along with sick
people who write denigrating
remarks, and lie about me
constantly. I'm not required
to, and most sane, intelligent,
rational people see it
the same way. This
is a reasonable person's standard.
I get along with sane people. You get
along with sick
people, and you demonstrate an antagonistic
attitude
toward people who exhibit the ability to write
logically,
and who are proponents of the paranormal.
Lucianarcy, is one example. All I see
from you are
denigrating remarks about her. They
are quoted on
the bobofficer.html
pages.
CFA, Ken Kizer wrote:
"I did a search on "Lucianarchy". You areDK: Where are your "people skills"?
unlikely to get a coherent answer from him/her,
just paranoia, hysteria, distortion, fear,
and loathing."
For the most part, the sickest writers to Usenet
treat
you well.
What does that fact indicate?
From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Subject: CFA frustration Ken Kizer blows up!
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 00:20:51 GMT
DK: Announcements a few times a month are not "harping."
CFA: More bull**it. YOU started NCAT;
YOU created dozens
of pages
to justify your fear
campaign.
DK: Firemen help schools conduct fire drills.
DK: Policement help citizens protect themselves
and their property, by educating
people in
classes.
DK: Is this education a "fear campaign" conducted
by police and firemen?
DK: I wrote facts, I proved them.
That's not a "fear
DK: campaign." I also show ways
to deal with this
DK: censorship and terrorism...
CFA: YOU insisted on xposting it to aa. YOU
CFA: deal with what it generates.
DK: No, you deal with what it is generating.
DK: You think that intelligent, rational
people
DK: think you are mentally stable?
DK: Do you think the cheers from raving fanatics
proves
DK: you are correct with your obsessive-compuslive
ranting?
DK: If you do think that, you are seriously deluded.
DK: cfa.html is read by intelligent
people, and they
DK: do not believe you are very stable.
DK: There has been much fear generated
by the sick
DK: fanatics who attack anyone supporting
EHW or myself.
DK: That's why you don't see much support on USENET.
DK: That fact is written about, and linked from cfa.html
DK: It shows you trying to evade that fact.
DK: I cite NCAT to educate people, to help them, so they
may see, as newbies, what
is going on here before it
happens to them, and so
they may know what to do to
protect themselves, and
when these things happen,
what to do to stop it.
DK: I wrote one time, not so long ago, that other TERRORIST
activity goes on, which
I'm not in a position to report
proofs of yet.
DK: This happens, mainly, to women. They are more vulnerable
to Internet attacks
of a sexual nature. They are depicted,
falsely, as if they
were having sex with animals on
Web pages. Their actual
faces are used. Their data
is forged in USENET
postings, and they are falsely depicted
as writing gross things
that many women are ashamed of.
This is often placed
in newsgroups they do not frequent, so
that the defamation
is not known by them for some time.
I know of one woman who did
nothing but write of the
paranormal in alt.paranormal,
and all sorts of nasty things
were written in her name,
as if she had written them in other
newsgroups. This was
a deterrence, to stop her from writing
about the paranormal in
alt.paranormal.
Women are harrassed on the telephone,
in a sexual manner, by
Internet participants, just for
posting favorably about Art
Bell, a paranormal talk-show host.
I have written about the
attacks upon Art Bell, and this
is real terrorism shown on the
NCAT pages, with links that prove
what has been going on.
In the alt.fan.art-bell
FAQ, Art Bell's wife is accused of
being a whore. This is very sick
behavior on the part of
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS
(PSF).
This is disgusting, and reprehensible, and
Ken Kizer's attacks
against me for exposing this, and doing what
I can to educate
people so they can effectively deal with it,
shows him for
what he is.
<snip>
DK:You never bother [complaining
about] the off-topic, lying,
DK: denigrating, writing of PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS.(PSF)
CFA: The skeptics are honest about their motives and attitudes.
CFA: I can deal with that.
CFA: What I don't appreciate is someone who pretends to be
CFA: "saving" the newsgroup and newsgroup participants from
CFA: "terrorism" and "murder".
DK: I never stated I
was "saving," only educating people.
DK: Certainly, I never
referred to newsgroup particpants
DK: as being threatened
by murder.
DK: The above is an exhibition
of paranoia. KK (CFA)
DK: writes, positively, without
question, that my writing
DK: is "pretend [ing]."
DK: To assert he knows, is
delusion. His irrational fear
DK: manifests with obsessive
writing against my mention
DK: of NCAT.
DK: His fear manifests by
his insistence that PSF are honest
DK: about their motives and
attitudes (and many of them have been
DK: proven deceptive repeatedly)
while my motives are
DK: assumed dishonest.
He has no authentic history of
DK: lies from me. This
delusion and denial.
DK: In addition to this statement,
the history of his actions,
DK: with written words, show
him acting out his paranoia.
DK: His actions have been
obsessive complaints about EHW and
DK: myself, and absense of
such complaints about PSF.
From: CFA•
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: Kettler, Ass, Kicked. Repeat.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <15019856.202f840@13.11>
NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.75.93
X-No-Archive: yes
>DK: I say you are "sick" but I have
> examples to show
it.
CFA: All wrapped up in your tiny little world, Dan.
CFA: Are you surrounded by spooks in your neighborhood?
CFA: Is your phone tapped?
CFA: Do large Ford sedans follow you all over town?
CFA: Are there black helicopters (with no identifying markings)
hovering close
now?
CFA: Are people recording your every keystroke?
CFA: Do they have records of all your financial dealings?
CFA: Is everyone that disagrees with you here out to murder you?
CFA: Does your reflection scare you?
CFA: Do you ever get time off?
CFA: Are you having fun?
DK: All his nasty accusations,
above, of paranoia have no basis in fact.
I see them as projections
of his own mentality.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CFA•
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: Kettler, Ass, Kicked. Repeat.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <15019856.202f840@13.11>
X-No-Archive: yes
>> >DK: Pretty sick deception, isn't it?
CFA: >> Pretty sick pair of people, [EHW, DK] aren't you?
END