Subject: John Fitzsimons...chronic liar? was: Re:
         What has this Wollman done?

Author: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Date: March 9, 1999

Message-ID: <36E51ED4.6562C8BC@psicounsel.com>
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal

The following was not part of this original posting, but is excerpted
from the above message description:

**********************************************************************

> Posting your post to :
> ...news.admin.net-abuse.usenet...

> ...think that people
> who see things differently to yourself are automatically "net
> abusers".

You are a word-twisting, spin-doctor, FITZ.  You have been on the
net long enough to know what a difference of opinion is, and how
that compares to lying abuse and obvious harassment.  You are,
again, as usual, writing falsehood.

> ...if that is what you believe then that would appear to
> be a very intolerant stance...

You _know_ that is _not_ what he believes.  Spin doctors, like
yourself, pose these suppositions as questions, to avoid the
_liar_ label, all the while conveying the false impression
that the statements are probably fact.

************************************************************************

Oh, come ___on___  more avoidance, more denial!

You wrote that Edmond Wollmann does not like people to disagree
with him. You wrote that his writing to news.admin.net.abuse.usenet
meant that he called people who disagree with him, abusers, and you
made a derogatory comment about him, based upon that that alleged
_fact_.

That's spin doctoring.  That's what you do.  It's just in the
past few days, and it's in the DEJANEWS archives.

<snip>

> >and ignore the bigots and degenerates.

> If people are NOT flaming people and are being flamed then I will
> often support them.....

Well, why always pick the paranormalists as those at fault, and
ignore the BIGOTS -- if both are flaming?

<snip>.

> >You have been, and you will continue to be, exposed again and again
> >on USENET, and widely known on the WEB--- all that you do.  I may be
> >out of the picture for months at a time, but I'll check, from time to
> >time, and when I see you lying on USENET, I'll bring it all to the
> >light of day.

> Do you ever consider what a fool you make of yourself by making such
> comments ?

No.  I am not a fool, and I don't appear as such, except to those
like you. You do not see very clearly, do you?

If you lie about me on USENET, and I expose you, that supposedly
makes me a fool.  Eh?

> Why do you want to help the <skeptics> [<<<delete] [bigots] so much ?

Let's translate, shall we, to avoid confusion.  "Skeptics" are
not part of this discussion. BIGOTS who LIE AND DENEGRATE proponents
of the paranormal, proponents of the existence of  alien life forms,
and proponents of astrology. That is the issue.   Change "skeptic" to
bigots, and I'll answer this.

I don't help the bigots.  Ignoring them, or defending them as you
do, helps them.

Raymond Karczewski exposes them.  They distort his writing, as
you do misquoting mine, and he is not helping them.

> If people say "believers" are hysterical and/or unbalanced why
> prove that they are right by flaming rants and hate pages ?

I have no "hate pages" and these are not "flaming rants."  They
are, clear, and rational exposures of the falsehood, and the biased
posts you place, the trouble you produce, and the denial of that trouble
from your writing.

You are destructive, and, evidence shows you are either blind to
the fact, or acting out another spin for hidden purposes.

I am not projecting the image of being hysterical, and neither is
Edmond Wollmann.  The BIGOTS, the spin doctors, can take
anything a person writes and distort it to show hysteria.  They
do this all the time.  You are doing it now.

A clear illustration of these methods is at the following page,
and in the linked URL page of Edmond Wollmann...

                http://www.psicounsel.com/faqchaos.html

More of the FITZSIMONS spin:

> You could help so many.

I do, and I'm doing it now, by exposing your spin doctoring about
Edmond Wollmann, your writing of others in the newsgroups, and
your lies.

I do it with writing about spirituality, and about the
paranormal.

I'd like to see these newsgroups freed up from the lies and
domination of BIGOTS.  My advocated methods are a help to people.

> I don't understand why you put 100% of your effort into hating
> people instead.

You calling my activities HATE, shows you are a spin doctor.
You are a deceiver, whether deliberately, or self-deceptive,
it does not matter.

Either way, you are self-destructive, and destructive, and your
writing consists, mainly, of falsehood.

FITZ wrote:

>...When you aren't busy sending me flames
> I can go for months in this newsgroup without worrying about anyone
> flaming me.

When you aren't writing lies about proponents, and just writing
about the paranormal, I don't bother you.

> If the "true believers" could behave themselves then the "skeptics"
> who flame will be much more "obvious" and look pretty silly as a
> result....

You sound like a sunday school teacher.  There is _some_ truth to
that.

> Every day that you ignored
> them you looked more "smart" and they looked more "idiotic".  :-)

I, generally, do not reply to every flame.  I know how to flame:

                           http://www.psicounsel.com/flame.html

One thing, you might consider, is that if you are going to flame
people, you look idiotic saying you don't flame, or that you should not flame
anyone, as I quoted you at /fitzsimons.html.

This is a flame from you:

        "100% of your effort into hating people instead..."

Attributing "hate" motives, is flaming.  I flame, but I do so rationally.
The above, from you, is irrational.  Also, I flame with the truth.  You
lie.   And, I don't say, or infer, that I don't flame.

You flamed me, and lied about me, in this post I quote.  You did
not defend in your flames, but initiated attacks.  Your arguments, all the
spins, were exposed by me.  I wrote with integrity, and truth.

>  ****************************************************
>   ,-._|\    John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
>  /  Oz  \   http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
>  \_,--.x/   http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/
>        v
> alt.paranormal.moderated - flame-free discussion of the paranormal.
******************************************************
--

                     dan (at) psicounsel com

                     http://www.psicounsel.com/news
 

Subject: Flaming? No problem was: Re: [alt.paranormal] Posting FAQ - read this
before posting!

Author: dan <dan@psicounsel.com>
Date: Mar. 12, 1999
Time of creation: 10:19:21 GMT

Message-ID: <7capn2$v9a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
References: <36e1503b.4213059@news.melbpc.org.au>

208.202.105.96

In article <36e1503b.4213059@news.melbpc.org.au>,
johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) wrote:

<snip>

> ...unless flaming
> becomes a problem again here you could consider deleting it ?

Flaming, a problem?  Why, no problem, John.  As long as the bigots
are attacking proponents of the paranormal, you don't notice.

As long as proponents are being discouraged from posting in
alt.paranormal because of the ridicule, lies and attacks,
you don't notice anything.

When Edmond Wollmann posts astrology in alt.paranormal, you notice
that--as if it created a _real_ problem.  When bigots attack
Lucianarchy, you write as if they were telling the truth.

Most peculiar!  However, not surprising considering your history
on USENET, which one can know by reading the following:

              http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

Then, you write that I'm the principal cause of these problems,
when I'd not posted in months.  Months after I stop, the incessant
nasty, lying, attacks continue upon proponents of the paranormal.

During all these attacks, you see fit to write falsehood about
Edmond Wollmann, and ignore the bigots and degenerates.

You have been, and you will continue to be, exposed again and again
on USENET, and widely known on the WEB--- all that you do.  I may be
out of the picture for months at a time, but I'll check, from time to
time, and when I see you lying on USENET, I'll bring it all to the
light of day.

> "Newbies" (probably rightly) will probably not be interested in what
> this newsgroup has been like. They are probably more interested in
> what it is like now.  :-)

Yes, a flame-fest, one you endorse by silence, while giving attention
to other so-called problems, such as Edmond Wollmann writing astrology
in alt.paranormal---blaming him for the problems.

> Regards, John.

For whom?

>  ******************************************************************
>   ,-._|\    John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
>  /  Oz  \   http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
>  \_,--.x/   http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/
>        v
> alt.paranormal.moderated - flame-free discussion of the paranormal.
=====================================================================

-------------
             ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT THE NEWSGROUPS,
             as it relates to the paranormal, to UFO
             research, to astrology, and to NEW AGE
             THOUGHT... is at...

             http://www.psicounsel.com/news
-------------
 
 
 

From: dan@psicounselSPAM_YOT.com (Dan Kettler)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: FITZSIMONS was Re: BDK status
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 06:14:02 GMT
Sender: dann@kyle105.u1.den.pcisys.net
Message-ID: <36eb0211.10529173@news.pcisys.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kyle105.u1.den.pcisys.net

X-Trace: newman.pcisys.net 921305659 23543 208.202.105.105
                                (13 Mar 1999 06:14:19 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@pcisys.net

X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452

FIRST:
            all about the newsgroup situation as it
            relates to UFO research, astrology, and
            New Age Thought... at...

            http://www.psicounsel.com/news

John Fitzsimons <johnf@melbpc.org.au> wrote:
Date: Jan. 23, 1999

       I, Dan Kettler, had not posted in nearly a
       month.  Here, we find, people writing about
       me Jan. 23, 1999.

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:22:07 -0600, Neykomi Lee
<XXneykomiXX@dtgnet.com> wrote:

 < snip >

>I hope that Bruce [Dan Kettler] returns to the news groups
>in the near future.

Fitzsimons replied:

         Why ? So that we can get more "Civility"
         threads ? More "FAQ" threads ? More "Skeptics"
         threads ? Aren't there enough worthless
         threads here already ?

No, John, there is lying attack after attack, not disagreement
with ideas, not disagreement with points of view, but attacks
upon proponents of the paranormal which is a form of censorship.

You don't mind those attacks, and you have blamed me for them,
even when I'd not posted in the newsgroup for months.

While I was not posting, you continued to write about me,
publicly, on USENET.

Well, it's not hard to see who and what you are with provable
quotes of you at...

            http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

---------------------------------------------------------------

There are lying so-called FAQS, propaganda from the degenerate,
slandering, liars, but you see fit to criticize my exposure
of these lies, rather than the lies themselves.  I have exposed
them at:

            http://www.psicounsel.com/altparreply.html

---------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you defend liars, while condemning my writing of the
truth?  Is it because you are a liar, yourself?

Let's see, shall we, if you lie a lot?

            http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

Well, seems like you do, as I point to your obvious and proven
lies right at the top of the page.

No-one with experience on USENET believes what you write.

FITZ WROTE:

      If someone has nothing constructive to say then why
      would you want to hear from them ?

The DEJANEWS archives, and the writing on my WEB SITE, show
writing about the subject of the newsgroups, about REMOTE
VIEWING, and other aspects of the paranormal, about
astrology, and about UFO research.  They also show defense of
those discouraged from posting by the ridicule, and that amounts
to a form of censorship.

Here is a sample of the writing of people disuaded from posting
to alt.paranormal by the nasty writing of bigots:

          http://www.psicounsel.com/page9328-a.htm#reg

The archives show that I am a person of integrity, and truth.

The archives show you are a liar, a spin-doctor, and a deceiver,
a destructive and self-destructive person.

            http://www.dejanews.com

<snip>

 ****************************************************
  ,-._|\    John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
 /  Oz  \   http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
 \_,--.x/   http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/
       v
alt.paranormal.moderated - flame-free discussion of the
paranormal.
------------------------------------------------------------------

                     dan (at) psicounsel com

                    http://www.psicounsel.com/news

                     dan (at) psicounsel com

                    www  psicounsel  com / bus
 
 
 

John Fitzsimons...chronic liar? was: Re: What has this Wollman done?

Author: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Date: March 9, 1999

Message-ID: <36E51ED4.6562C8BC@psicounsel.com>
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.paranormal

References:
                  <36E3DF3E.174AB6AB@online.no>
                  <36E3FDDD.237D@yahooo.com>
                  <36ef6fb3.10392016@news.melbpc.org.au>

John Fitzsimons johnf@melbpc.org.au wrote:

> On 8 Mar 1999 16:42:23 GMT, "Edmond H. Wollmann"
> <arcturian1@yahooo.com> wrote:

> >They believe that because I am logical and tell the truth that this
> >somehow is "mean."

FITZ wrote:

> I would expect that your constantly posting your astrology posts to
> the alt.paranormal newsgroup has something to do with it.

It seems, you don't even "suspect" it.  Do you lie often enough
to be considered a "chronic" liar?  Let the reader examine
DEJANEWS, and determine that: http://www.dejanews.com

It's obvious that Wollmann receives the same lying abusive
attacks whether he posts to alt.paranormal, or just
alt.astrology.

Let the reader, if interested, look at my rebuttals and proof
of Fitzsimons' repeated misinformation and word twisting
defamation in DEJANEWS, as well as quotes at /fitzsimons.html

I have read and exchanged posts with FITZSIMONS, off and on,
for 3 years.  I have recorded the word-twisting, and noted
his level of intelligence, high enough (along with extensive
experience on USENET) that he would likely not "suspect"
something so ridiculous.

There is more to be noted about FITZSIMONS, with accurate quotes
at...

           http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

alt.paranormal has one *complete FAQ (*question and answer
format--with comprehensive list of questions) with one principal
author (revised and commented upon by others) who actually
believes  there _IS SUCH A THING AS_ the paranormal.  In my
view, _THAT_ fact is meaningful.

In that FAQ, there is _no_ forbidding of astrology posts
in alt.paranormal. Indeed, astrology _IS_ paranormal in
nature...

             http://www.psicounsel.com/altparfaq.html

> When I asked why you did this you didn't even have the courtesy
> to reply.

Not replying to someone like yourself, who shows hardly any
self-respect, or respect for intelligent and rational people,
is, in my opinion, quite natural.  You are not worthy of a
reply to most of the ridiculous statements and questions you
put forth.  You have shown yourself to be "buddies" with the
most degenerate writers on USENET, for no other apparent
purpose than to defame anyone who would dare disagree with
your views.

I did answer your question, however.  Many of the same people
write denegrating remarks --lies-- about proponents of
the paranormal in alt.astrology and alt.paranormal, for
no other apparent reason other than that those making
the remarks are bigots.

Self-respecting people respect other people who are worthy
of it.  I do not respect you FITZ because you have revealed,
again and again, that you are, basicly, dishonest.  Usually,
you show little or no regard for others, except to the extent
that they serve your self-centered purposes.

I serve none of your purposes, hence you have written lies
about me, and attempted to publicly denegrate my character.
The same is true of your writing about Lucianarchy and Edmond
Wollmann.

FITZ wrote:

> Posting your post to :
> ...news.admin.net-abuse.usenet...

> ...think that people
> who see things differently to yourself are automatically "net
> abusers".

You are a word-twisting, spin-doctor, FITZ.  You have been on the
net long enough to know what a difference of opinion is, and how
that compares to lying abuse and obvious harassment.  You are,
again, as usual, writing falsehood.

> ...if that is what you believe then that would appear to
> be a very intolerant stance...

You _know_ that is _not_ what he believes.  Spin doctors, like
yourself, pose these suppositions as questions, to avoid the
_liar_ label, all the while conveying the false impression
that the statements are probably fact.

> Regards, John.

You don't even have a genuine regard for yourself, let
alone anyone else.  Only a person capable of respecting
others worthy of such, can, in depth, respect themselves,
since all beings are, in essence, a unity of consciousness.

We can only respect the _essence_ of every being, and if
don't like what the outward consciousness of some beings
produce, we created it, at some level.  So, I understand
that we each create even the (unprovoked) attacks and defamation
of us.  Edmond Wollmann would agree to that, probably.
However, life is filled with paradox, so the responsibity
is upon us _all_ to bring light to the world, and to speak
truth.  You are _not_ a truth teller, however.

Your essence is respected, but the outward consciousness is
looked upon with disgust by me, and by others with a discerning
spiritual "eye."

Your writing, about and to, nearly anyone who poses some
imagined "threat" to you, or your aims, is nothing short of
lies, attacks, and apparent hatred.

Though you have accused me of writing out of hate, FITZ, let
me assure you that my purpose, here, is to expose you to the
readers, not to hurt you.  In fact, I hope that you are helped.

My writing on these pages is, partly, to help you.  Some
day, I hope, you will read it, and contemplate the
destructive, and self-destructive momentum of your words.

>  ****************************************************
>   ,-._|\    John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
>  /  Oz  \   http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
>  \_,--.x/   http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/
>        v
> alt.paranormal.moderated - flame-free discussion of the paranormal.

--

                     dan (at) psicounsel com

                    www  psicounsel  com / news
 
 


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