fitzpost

fitzsimons001

All about John Fitzsimons at....

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

It contains the words of John Fitzsimons, and there you
will find much that reveals what he's up to, and has been
up to for years.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why write about John Fitzsimons? He has been writing
lying denigration of character about me. I wish to discredit
him, so the lies are not believed These posts come after
my repeated requests for him to cease his defamation of
character, with lies, in the newsgroups.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He has recently demanded that I take down my references
to him at my web site. That has been his condition for ceasing
his lying propaganda about me. My web pages stand as
a defense, and a deterrent. The Dejanews archives contain
the web page reference defense for those browsing and
seeing his lies about me.

The web pages stand as a continued defense for all those
browsing for years to come.

The web pages about John Fitzsimons did not even commence
until the lying attacks from him had continued relentlessly for a
long period of time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Fitzsimons 001 <was> Re: James Randi

For those of you unacquainted with John Fitzsimons, allow me to perform a public service.

Also, allow me to educate you about what "spin-doctoring" is.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

         John Fitzsimons <johnf@melbpc.org.au>
         Subject: Re: James Randi
         Sender: John Fitzsimons <johnf@melbpc.org.au>

         Message-ID: <sL3uN9DkjxxqXauHTypc7w8MpRg5@4ax.com>

On Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:50:28 -0500, Dan Pressnell
<dpressne@ns.vvm.com> wrote:

>Dan Kettler wrote:

< snip >

>Wow! Your claim that you want to talk about EVENTS and not PERSONS

JF: Go to his web site. He has pages devoted to his opinions of "persons".

JF: If Bruce says he isn't talking about "persons" yet still does so...

DK: That is called "spin-doctoring" which John Fitzsimons does quite often. He colludes with the fanatics by continuing where they left off. Spin-doctor number one says I say I want to "talk about EVENTS and not PERSONS." Spin doctor number 2, JF, takes that and changes
it to *if* I say I'm not "talking about 'persons'"

To the reader, like most, who don't watch every word, it seems like I did say it, not * if * I say.

This is "spiin-doctoring." It is deception.

JF: "...here and on his hate pages, then that just lets everyone know that he is a hypocrite."

The above is lying defamation of character. It is the writing of John Fitzsimons. He calls me a "hypocrite," but masks it with " if " to make it seem less harsh. He calls my pages "hate" but never, though asked repeatedly, tells anyone what words depict this alleged "hatred."

To the discerning reader, to the intelligent, to the rational, they can all see that John Fitzsimons writes deception, and he writes defamation.

What is a fanatic?

http://www.psicounsel.com/pseufana.html

What of James Randi and the 1.2 Million alleged "challenge"?

http://www.psicounsel.com/artbellclub/bdkspage.html

fitzsimons002

Fitzsimons 002 <was> Re: The alt.paranormal newsgroup in general.

First, for clarification, who is John Fitzsimons?

Find out here...

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

As a public service, let us discover what a "spin-doctor" is?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Fitzsimons <johnf@melbpc.org.au>

Message-ID: <IbzuN0oCdYJcZtZ5DneLDbxl++JA@4ax.com>

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:56:50 +1000

On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:57:57 GMT, Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
wrote:

< snip >

> The really "pathetic" thing is that you never tell anyone
> what is written on those pages that shows "hate."

Spin-doctor John Fitzsimons writes:

JF: The PURPOSE of your pages is to denigrate people.

DK: Note, the point was that there are words on the web pages.
Some of those words, allegedly, contain expressions of
"hatred." Which words are they?

        A spin-doctor conveys his/her deception by vague references.
        To maintain the illusion of my alleged "purpose"
         to "denigrate" and to keep the illusion alive about
         my alleged "hatred" he avoids answering the question.

JF:   Even you should be able to understand that point.

DK: My pages, if you, or anyone would read them thoroughly
         would be shown as a form of defense, with a primary
         purpose of defending myself by discrediting your
         allegations, and you. Discrediting you makes the
         lies you have told have little public effect.

You have relentlessly attacked me with lying defamation,
and my web pages are a form of defense.

JF: People usually denigrate people due to
hating them.

DK: You are, then, saying you hate me. Are you not?
         You are the attacker, and I have only responded
          to your attacks with defense. DEJANEWS reveals
          that to be the fact, consistently.

http://www.deja.com (use "power search")

DK:   In "Fitzsimons 001" I have you on record, today,
          calling me a "hypocrite." Is that not so? You say
          denigrating is usually hatred. Isn't calling a person
          a "hypocrite" denigrating?

JF: That is why you would never consider removing
those pages.

DK: I've explained that the pages are a form of deterrence.
That explanation is at...

http://www.psicounsel.com/intelllig.html

DK: Since my pages tell the truth of you, they are a
defense, and they discredit you.

          I will continue the defense, since your attacks are
          relentless, and the pages will remain intact, and will
          be modified as time goes on.

JF: In addition you post lists of people you hate as well.

DK: The list in question...

http://www.psicounsel.com/whos.html

...have nothing to do with "hate" and they are a public
service.

fitzsimons003

All about John Fitzsimons at....

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

It contains the words of John Fitzsimons, and there you
will find much that reveals what he's up to, and has been
up to for years.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The web pages stand as a continued defense for all those
browsing for years to come.

The web pages about John Fitzsimons did not even commence
until the lying attacks from him had continued relentlessly for a
long period of time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <356412a9.6398315@news.melbpc.org.au>,

            johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) wrote:
          >
          > On Tue, 19 May 1998 04:16:03 -0600, Dan Kettler
          > <dan@psicounselSPAM_YOT.com> wrote:
          >
          > < snip >
          >
          > >         The proponents of the paranormal, seeing
          > >         two FAQS and 1 so-called "charter" placed
          > >         by pseudo-skeptics, will mostly, in my
          > >         opinion, opt to honor the one FAQ and
          > >         CHARTER documented by a proponent
          > >         of the paranormal, myself.

http://www.psicounsel.com/altparfaq.html

JF: > Incorrect. As a proponent of the paranormal myself I much
JF: > prefer the FAQ written by the pseudo-skeptics.

DK: If you read the text, above your comment, you will find
DK: that your reply makes absolutely no sense,
DK: John Fitzsimons.

You wrote that your preference was a contradiction of
my statement.

You are writing of one person, yourself.

          For your statement to make sense, I would have had to
          write that _all_ "in my opinion, [will] opt to honor the
          one FAQ and CHARTER documented by a proponent
          of the paranormal, myself."

fitzsimons004

The text for the following is at...

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

This is about John Fitzsimons

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following shows John Fitzsimons writing a completely
false statement about me. It is defamation of character,
with the use of name-calling -- the word "dictator."

Has John Fitzsimons ever been able to find a reference
to prove his allegation?

No, he has not.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.config
Subject: Re: alt.paranormal.moderated already exists

On Mon, 25 May 1998 20:02:36 -0400, David Lindauer
<camille@bluegrass.net> wrote:

DL: Bruce, did you realize this thread is cross-posted
DL: to alt.config?

>Dan Kettler wrote:

< snip >

JF: >> Of course he does. He has made a number of posts
JF: >> on this thread including alt.config

JF: >> He hopes that there are enough people there that
JF: >> are moronic enough to support him in his attempt
JF: >> to change alt.paranormal to a moderated newsgroup,
JF: >> run by him, that would exclude any posters he disagrees
JF: >> with.

John Fitzsimons, the above is a false statement, declared
as fact. If a person does not know, to be honest they would
declare it as an opinion, or something they had not fully
investigated.

In newsgroup posts, I never advocated a moderation
process "run by" me. John Fitzsimons never showed
such a reference in the DEJANEWS archives.

In both public posts and private discussion, I have, in
fact, advocated that others make decisions in the
moderation process, and still others to actually do the
day-to-day duty of deciding upon which posts should
show in the newsgroup, and which should not.

David Lindhauer is a witness to all of that.

JF: Can we all spell d i c t a t o r ? :-) :-)

******************************************************
,-._|\    John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
/ Oz \   johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309
\_,--.x/   http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
       v    http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/

******************************************************

fitzsimons 005

All about John Fitzsimons at....

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

It contains the words of John Fitzsimons, and there you
will find much that reveals what he's up to, and has been
up to for years.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The web pages stand as a continued defense for all those
browsing for years to come.

The web pages about John Fitzsimons did not even commence
until the lying attacks from him had continued relentlessly for a
long period of time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Fitzsimons, <johnf@melbpc.org.au> as quoted on
the WEB page:

      http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

      Let's see.........looking in the Collins
      English Dictionary,,,

HYPOCRISY :

      "the practice of professing standards,
      beliefs, etc. contrary to one's real
      behaviour .."

      Let's see if this "fits". You profess
      "civility" and admit above that you aren't
      "civil" at times. Yep. Looks like I found
      the right word in the dictionary.   :-)

The above is statement is not accurate. Your writing and
my actions do not show me to be a hypocrite. I explained
why not on the following web page and pointer location...

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html#nothyp

John Fitzsimons calling me a "hypocrite" shows a lack of civility,
and incorrect usage of the English language.

fitzsimons006

The text for the following is at...

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

This is about John Fitzsimons

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was extracted from the web pages, and
modified...
_______________________________________________

I have tried to explain to you, John Fitzsimons, that you are
accomplishing nothing by continuing to increase conflict in
the newsgroup, alt.paranormal.

Apparently, you have shown very clearly your objectives.

         1. To "divide and conquer" by stating that you believed
              I was belittling a certain proponent of the
              paranormal.

I was not, and he knows it, and
made it quite clear in a posting.

             Instead of getting what you wanted, you showed
             yourself to those you would best befriend,
             as manipulative. They did not say that, but I
             strongly suspect it.

         2. To intimidate me into posting as you please.

              I don't care if you post 1000 per day of nasty
              remarks about me. I will post about the FAQ,
              and CHARTER until I'm tired of it

              Instead of getting what you wanted, you have
              shown yourself to be in dire need of control,
              while you make demands and ultimatums.

3. To persuade others that I am alone, and all
others think everything I do is wrong.

              This has not happened. You seem to have
              persuaded people that you write "pointless"
              posts, quoting one of them from a private
              dialogue.

             All you try to convey, when shown as false,
             shows you as false. That is your
             "accomplishment."

         4. To enlist others on your side.

              What you have, instead accomplished is to bring
               your "friends" to your aid, all of them the
               most degenerate and hostile posters
              in alt.paranormal/alt.astrology. But then, "birds of
              a feather flock together," don't they?

They are described here...

http://www.psicounsel.com/pseufana.html

They are fanatics.

So, for all your failures, and all that you did "succeed" in doing,
still you continue to bring very little of value to yourself.

In a recent post, of September 1999, you wrote I "denigrate" you on the web pages. You denigrate yourself with your own words. They
are quoted on the pages.

fitzsimons007

All about John Fitzsimons at....

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

This is about John Fitzsimons

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently, the references to these events have been wiped
out of the DEJANEWS archives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There were some 31 people in the newsgroup alt.out-of-body
telling people what city they lived in, and John Fitzsimons
strongly objected to the fact. That had been part of their
custom, in that newsgroup, for a number of practical purposes

On the 9th of March 1998, the original objection from J.F.
appeared. By the 11th, it was written that about 29 people's
practices were contrary to John Fitzsimons' desires, and the
message conveyed was that they wished John Fitzsimons
to cease his repeated demands..

Again, on the 11th, John Fitzsimons was adamant, insisting that
he was being inconvenienced by the repeated references to
people's cities of residence. He never got the hint from a large
portion of the group.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote to the readers of a.o.o.b (slightly modified):
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Fitzsimons, has had similar behavior patterns, here in alt.paranormal. We can only hope that his mental state is
temporary. He seems to have "flown off the handle" lately,
with repeated inflamatory remarks directed at myself and
others in alt.paranormal. All the time, he's been stating
that no-one should flame anyone under any circumstances,
and at the same time calling the attacked person a "hypocrite."
and "paranoid."

He seems to project his own problems on others.

We are warning you of alt.out-of-body so you may thwart
any such tendency for a war of words to erupt from John
Fitzsimons.

He is so obsessed that even when offered the option for peace
repeatedly, if he would just stop calling people names, he does
not stop. He has gone on with 15 to 20 flame posts a day, and
when I once mentioned 15, he wrote that the next day he'd do
"better" than 15.

He goes into these fits occasionally, and the last one he had
over a year ago resulted in the same type of 15-20 flame posts
per day directed at a particular person. The last fit of rage
lasted about a month. This one has been going on a month
or so. We can only hope the pattern, here, of a one month
duration will repeat and he will "simmer down" soon.

fitzsimons008

All about John Fitzsimons at....

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

This is about John Fitzsimons

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The web pages stand as a continued defense for all those
browsing for years to come.

The web pages about John Fitzsimons did not even commence
until the lying attacks from him had continued relentlessly for a
long period of time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=424985305&fmt=text

Click at the above for a Dejanews reference to the full
text of the following...

From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons)
Date: 22 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT

Lucianarcy wrote:

           ...all we have ever done is provide well sourced
           and researched evidence and discussion about
          metaphysics, spiritual enlightenment and
          paranormal   phenomena, and help defend the
          minority of proponents from abuse and newsgroup
          disruption by sticking our necks on the line, many
          times ... <snip>

Fitzsimons wrote:

... berate people.

Dan Kettler...

You constantly write of proponents defense as attack, as
in the above use of the word "berate."

Luci writes of...

...the personal abuse carried out by fanatics who
harass proponents of these groups.

Dan Kettler...

"Fanatics" what of them?

See...

http://www.psicounsel.com/pseufana.html

John Fitzsimons:

       What personal abuse from people opposing proponents ?
       I have been here for years and have had minimal abuse
       from anyone.

Dan Kettler: The fanatics attack others, not you, because you
fulfill their purposes by attacking
proponents, and defending fanatics.

John Fitzsimons, comparing my so-called "abuse" to that of
fanatics:

             The major abuse has come from a supposed proponent of
              the paranormal. Bruce has even gone to the trouble
              to devote (web) hate pages to me.

Dan Kettler:

              The above is ridiculous. It could not even be
               his opinion with his degree of experience on
               the Net that I promote the major abuse, that
               my so-called "abuse" is more than that of the
               fanatics towards anyone. In context, that's what
               it means.

Luci writes of...

...abuse carried out by fanatics who
harass proponents of these groups

John writes of...

"The major abuse has come from [Dan Kettler]."

In context, it means "the major abuse," in
the newsgroups, not just toward himself.

Luci writes of...

"... like-minded posters who pick up and run with
their obscene material."

JF defends the fanatics...

              "What obscene material ? Maybe there is something
              about your postings that upsets people ?
              Simply discussing the paranormal wouldn't do it.

Dan Kettler:

              Yes, JF, defends the fanatics again. Yes, simply
              discussing the paranormal and astrology _does_
              do it.

JF: Otherwise I would have the same supposed problems
that you believe you have.

DK:      Luci has had problems, and so have nearly all the other
             proponents of astrology and other aspects of
             the paranormal. We know why _you_ don't have
             these problems.

<snip>

JF:     Don't be put off by talk of imaginary enemies. If you
           dislike someone's comments then you can choose
           to ignore them.

DK: If you don't like this post, JF, then ignore it, okay?

fitzsimons009

All about John Fitzsimons at....

http://www.psicounsel.com/fitzsimons.html

This is about John Fitzsimons

-------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The web pages stand as a continued defense for all those
browsing for years to come.

The web pages about John Fitzsimons did not even commence
until the lying attacks from him had continued relentlessly for a
long period of time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click to the following for a reference. DEJANEWS records
past posts:

http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=454596818&fmt=text

> On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:19:21 GMT, dan@psicounsel.com wrote:

> ><snip>

JF: ...unless flaming
JF: becomes a problem again here you could consider deleting it ?

DK: Flaming, a problem? Why, no problem, John. As long
DK: as the bigots are attacking proponents of the paranormal,
DK: you don't notice.

DK: What of such fanatics?

http://www.psicounsel.com/pseufana.html

JF: I am a proponent of the paranormal. I don't have any
JF: bigots attacking me here. :-)

Three things, in your denial,
your avoidance, you missed:

                          1. Why have you not criticized the
                             bigots for _initiating_ attack
                             of the proponents of the
                             paranormal, while instead
                             attacking the proponents for
                             their _defense_?

If both are flaming, why pick on
one side?

                         2. Why, in your statement at that
                             beginning of this post do you
                             write as if there was _no_ flaming
                             in the newsgroup, as if since I had
                             been gone, there, allegedly, had
                             been no flames?

                         3. Why have you ignored my replies
                              to your above statement, again
                              repeated below?

DK: Now, _you know_ I answered that in a recent post,
DK: and in fact answered it months ago. Clearly, it is
DK: the bigots who you support when you write against
DK: proponents of the paranormal.

DK: Proponents expose the lies and propaganda of the
DK: bigots. You write lies about proponents such as
DK: Lucianarchy, Edmond Wollmann, myself, and
DK: others.

DK: When you support bigots against those who are
DK: a threat to them, of course they will be nice to you.

DK: Yes, the BIGOTS, and for a clear description of who they are:

http://www.psicounsel.com/whos.html

DK: They are not skeptics, not people who merely disagree
DK: with the existence of the paranormal, but people who
DK: write everything they can to discourage proponents
DK: from posting to alt.paranormal.

JF: Perhaps if you didn't attack people....

DK: I defend. You, and the bigots you support, attack.

<snip>

JF: If I think people are speaking the truth I will say so.

DK: You don't give greater importance to what is truth,
DK: compared to what are lies. <snip>

> If I think someone is not telling the truth then I will often say
> so. It doesn't matter if they are "skeptics" or "believers".

DK: In disputes between bigots and proponents of the paranormal,
DK: you side with bigots. You do this nearly _all_ the time.
DK: "Skeptics" don't enter the picture,,.

DK: Then, you write that I'm the principal cause of these
DK: problems...

JF: Please give me the message ID/date where I said you were the
JF: "principle cause". I doubt that You can find a post where I
JF: have used those words recently.

JF: You are not necessarily the principle cause of flaming in this
JF: newsgroup however this flame post of yours shows that
JF: you are happy to flame both believers, and non believers.

See "FITZSIMONS 008" as a "subject" Sept. 27, 1999

It contains the DEJANEWS link as follows...

http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=424985305&fmt=text

John Fitzsimons wrote:

            What personal abuse from people opposing
            proponents ?...The major abuse has come
            from a supposed proponent of the paranormal.
            Bruce [Dan Kettler] has even gone to the trouble
            to devote (web) hate pages to me.

JF: It should also be noted that even though flames in this newsgroup
JF: haven't stopped altogether they have gone down considerably during
JF: the period you [Dan Kettler] took a break.

DK: Months after I stop [posting] the incessant
DK: nasty, lying, attacks continue upon proponents of the paranormal.

DK: Yeah, sure! BIGOTS flamed proponents before I came
DK: on the NET. BIGOTS flame proponents after I stop
DK: posting for months, and BIGOTS flame proponents
DK: on and on, and you side with them continually against
DK: the proponents.

DK: Naturally, there will be a lesser number and intensity
DK when the major "threat" to the BIGOTS unlimited control
DK: and intimidation ceases, by either my absence or that
DK: of other principal proponents.

DK: As part of these attacks, you see fit to write falsehood about
DK: Edmond Wollmann...