This page updated May 2005                                                  by Bruce Kettler "DK" © 1997-2005
 
 

Is the JREF/James Randi so-called "challenge" real or bogus?  Is it possible for anyone to win this award of 1 million dollars plus for proving homeopathy, psychic ability, astrology, or dowsing?  You be the judge.  These questions have been asked repeatedly in USENET NEWSGROUPS and the "OneList" private mail discussion list.  The skeptics have not adequately answered them.  Check the DEJA NEWS archives yourself.  The JREF/James Randi has not answered them.  If you want to know more, I suggest you investigate, and then ask these questions of the JREF yourself.

Dear James, [Randi]

Your latest "article" has so many mistakes, deceptions, and example of arrogance,
that I must respond in detail. I am inserting comments for all interested parties to
read. I am passing this along widely, so that people can circulate the information
through the web.

My perception of your tactics is that they lack understanding and integrity. Since
you purportedly represent the skeptic community, you do them a great disservice.

As I have said before, and will repeat again, when you are right, I applaud you, and
when you are wrong, I attempt to educate you. Thus far, you have shown little sign
of being educable.

My major comments are in Arial 16 bold font below – the insert uses VERITAS – Harvard’s
motto which means "Truth."

Best, Gary [Dr. Gary Schwartz of the University of Arizona]

Here is a "case" of a person, John Benneth,who wants to meet the alleged "challenge" of James Randi to collect 1 million dollars when he can show proofs regarding homeopathy.  The principal issue with John Benneth is that scientists and physicians cite the "Randi Challenge" as proof of homeopathy being ineffective. They say that if had merit, someone would have collected the 1 million dollar prize.

Benneth contends that many people are being deceived, and lives are being negatively affected because people will not utilize homeopathic medicine, having heard of facts that only give one part of the complete picture, without the important fact that the "prize" is, virtually, impossible for anyone to collect. If "JB" is correct, then there are important ethical issues at stake, here, and the outcome of the truthful proof and public telling of this matter will have far-reaching consequences, world wide.

In this "case" the person has been in touch with Art Bell, a paranormal talk-show host, about inviting James Randi on to the Art Bell show to discuss his meeting the JREF "challenge."
 
 

"UFO True Believers and Skeptics Clash on the Web"

          The New York Times, Monday, June 30, 1997

A "fan" of Art Bell, of Rush Limbaugh, or an actor or actress, is simply someone who enthusiastically listens to, reads, or sees them in the movies or on TV. I'm a "fan" of Shirley MacLaine. I was, and still, am enthusiastic about her movie and book, Out on a Limb. There's a great deal about extraterrestrial contact in that material, but I don't, necessarily, assume it's all true, or think that I must gather my belongings and go off with some group to Peru and follow Shirley MacLaine at some gathering place.

One can be a"fan" of Shirley Maclaine as an actress, a spiritual teacher, or both. I, personally, find most value in the story of how she found a spiritual path - in itself a teaching.

"Fans" find things wrong with some of Art Bell's guests, and some of his habits. A cultist would think Art Bell and all his guests were perfect.

I haven't heard anyone call Art Bell show, saying "I listen to all your guests, and I know they are telling the truth, because you are our great leader." If one "follower" like that did call in, I'm sure Art would set them straight, that he is a talk show host, and not anyone's Guru. I've listened to the Art Bell show, and I've learned something about his "fans" who call in and are placed on-the-air," that Art is not, to them, a "great leader."

Any public figure can become adored by "True Believers," and I'm sure there are some who would think Art Bell's show to be a source of absolute truth.  I remember the late J. Krishnamurti, who most of his life asked people to be free of attachment to spiritual teachers, or teachings, and much to his dismay, found people calling themselves "Krishnamurtiites."

There is a link to written material from the Heaven's Gate group. From that, one can see a vast difference in mentality between the average listener and "fan" of Art Bell, and that of the Heaven's Gate group.

Art Bell was, simply, a talk show host. He presented the ideas and experiences of guests, and some of his own ideas. He's not a fanatic, and he did not promote fanaticism.

A cult is a group of blinded followers who have given up healthy self esteem, and have replaced it with esteem of a group leader, and devotion to a mission or cause. I"ve written of a particular cult, and here is a link to that information. There are many charactristics of cults, and one predominant one is illogic and brainwashing. In the everyday affairs of life, a typical cultists can function logically, but when engaged in discussion of subjects he or she has been brainwashed about, they cannot utilize their intelligence. A good example of able functioning is shown in the Heaven's Gate group and their ability with computers, yet an unrealistic notion that physical death would be an effective method for transport of their souls to an alien spaceship.

I believe in survival of the soul. I believe there are alien life-forms. Most people who believe such things do not feel it is reasonable for anyone to assume they can tranport a soul to a spaceship by suicide, nor do they believe it is philosophically sound to assume one can leave this planet permanently until they die of natural causes from outside their own conscious choice.

Anti-Communism was as much a cult as American Communism was. Senator Joseph McCarthy, was an Anti-Communist who made history, and books were written by similar cultists who stated certain public figures were communists. Even President Eisenhower, according to these fanatics, was, supposedly, a Communist.

This sort of fanatical behavior, of an "anti" type, has been called "witch hunting." It produces hysteria in many.

Typically meeting the descriptions of my term "skep-ti-cult" is James Randi, a so-called "skeptic" leader. He's made a public statement about Art Bell, blaming him for the recent 39 suicides. This was hysterical witch hunting.

Here is a Web Site about James Randi.   It has audio that may be heard on the Internet, from the infamous "Randi tapes. Many subjects are covered, such as his disputes with psychic Uri Geller.  There are biographies, discussions about his dispute with Riley G, and other topics. Legal Disclaimer: The link to the site titled The Truth About James Randi and Others does not constitute endorsement of the material found on that site, nor does it attest to the truth of allegations placed on that web site.  URL referencing is a common practice on the Net, and it is normal to consider them merely reference points, and not the actual content of the sites referenced from.

Other Web Sites, with nearly the same content as the above, were  taken down during a period of years, apparently due to complaints. In one case, it happened within 24 hours of the announcement of its existence in the newsgroup, sci.skeptic.
 
 

...mass suicide of thirty-nine cult members in California...

We're told that this cult embraced the stupid assertion that comet Hale-Bopp is accompanied by a huge UFO, to which these dupes thought they could migrate by killing themselves.

...may have given the deluded Higher Source people the final item they needed to convince them that suicide...

Dames and Bell... giggled at those who have been terrified by the lies, and you've chosen to ignore the possibilty that suggestible people would accept those lies, and might act on them.

And I'm sure you have no trouble sleeping.

James Randi

To the irrational cultists, Randi's followers, Ed Dames, supposedly, was running from the challenge, even though the obvious facts have been proven repeatedly. In a similar manner, whatever metaphysics and logic you might present to the Heaven's Gate members, they might still insist they must kill themeselves to be transported to a space ship.

Randi wrote:

        "...he unconscionably promotes every sort of stupidity that he can attract;
        Ed Dames is his special pet and current "star."

James Randi considers remote viewing, "stupidity," and announces it. His followers emulate his sarcastic and derogatory manner of writing and speech. Other organizations that have been considered "cults" by the media have had this sort of emulation of their leader, a personality worship.

Here are some examples of cult-like fanaticism from people who post in Usenet Newsgroups, and who have
defended James Randi  The writing is verifiable in the Dejanews archives.  Click on "power search."
 

                   From:  Dan Pressnell <dpressne@ns.vvm.com>
                   Newsgroups: alt.paranormal, alt.astrology
                   Subject: The new age and kooks
                   Date:  Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:18:17 -0500
 

Now that Bruce Daniel Kettler has taught James Randi a lesson, and
Edmond Wollmann has banned all disbelievers from the internet, I guess
now it's time to talk seriously about the new age, huh?

First, let's just believe all sorts of crap.  Such as... Ed Dames can do
real remote viewing, as Bruce Daniel Kettler says.  After all, James
Randi didn't appear on the kook Art Bell radio program, so that means Ed
Dames is accurate.... <snip>

From the beginning, Kettler has attacked James Randi.  That no psychic
has ever been able to pass Randi's tests infuriates him.  Rather than
blaming the psychics, though, Kettler blames Randi... <snip>

Let's see if Kettler and Wollman can say something coherent in reply.
If they have the guts.

Dan

---

        From:  "Avital Pilpel" <ap241@columbia.edu>
        Newsgroups: alt.astrology, sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal
        Subject:   Re: The *real* Truth About James Randi!
        Date:  Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:44:53 -0400
       Organization: Columbia University

<snip> [...]

 
Randi is *constantly* sued by enraged would-be millionaires who failed the
Randi challange asking for damages becasue Randi won't let them take the
challange with their rules and his money; by unscupulous "psychics" and
other "paranormalists" which he exposes as frauds, for "damage to their
business"... <snip>

All this hoopla at Randi the "criminal" is simply yet another pathetic
attempt by the fraudulent so-called "psychics" to make Randi's embarrassing
challenge go away, with its daily reminder that they can't actually *do*
what they keep claiming they regularly perform.

-----

          From:  "Avital Pilpel" <ap241@columbia.edu>
          Newsgroups: alt.paranormal, alt.astrology
          Subject:  Re: Great educational news!
          Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:13:40 -0400
          Organization: Columbia University
 

> Hey, Ed Dames is going after the school children.  That's right, he's
> contributing remote viewing material to schools.

Kansas will pick it up, no doubt. Remote viewing classes will fit right
between the "Why creationism is correct" period the "the big bang: a hoax"
afternoon session.

Damn. he could at least had *tried* to sell them something less harmful to
their minds - such as crack cocaine, for example,

-----

 

From: "Avital Pilpel" <ap241@columbia.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology,alt.astrology.metapsych
Subject: Re: discussion of Usenet censorship
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:20:05 -0400
Organization: Columbia University

Peter Nyikos <nyikos@math.sc.edu> wrote in message news:7pbvu2

 
"I applaud [Ed Wollman and Bruce Daniel Kettler] for their efforts to let
people know what is really going on in these newsgroups.  I wish there were
a comparable effort going on in talk.origins."

AP:

 
You *do* realize that these two won the 1998 and 1997 "Kook of the year"
award, respectively?

They aren't exactly in good relations with this thing called "reality".

Presuming that this isn't a sock puppet, well, it seems that we have yet
*another* kook drawn to the alt.astrology waterhole.
 

Dan Kettler:

The "awards" for "kook" are often nothing more than a farce, used by
pseudo-skeptic fanatics to discredit  anyone who would dare publicly expose
their cult-like tactics.  It is a tool of defamation, for them.

"Usenet kook" is not an accurate statement, since only about 40 people
vote for these so-called "kooks."  Usenet consists of many thousands of readers and
participants.  When pseudo-skeptics use this instrument of defamatoin, they
are typically anti-paranormalists who often post in alt.paranormal and similar
newsgroups.  The voters are less than 1/100 of 1 percent of Usenet.

As you can see from the above example from Avital Pilpel, those who disagree
seem to be "kooks."  This is typical of pseudo-skeptic fanatic writing in alt.paranormal
for years.

I will ask this question, Aug. 25, 1999, on this web page and through direct e-mail
copied to 2 other persons, Avital Pilpel, do you have any evidence to substantiate
your public allegation that I am not "in good relations with this thing called 'reality'"?
What, to you, are bad "relations," and what is it that seems to you, is real in
contrast to what you think I experience?  I expect  to find your reply in the newsgroup
alt.paranormal, if you have one.

On Aug. 28, 1999 Avital Pilpel posted this...

From: "Avital Pilpel" <ap241@columbia.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Anybody else miss BDKook?
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:39:07 -0400
Organization: Columbia University

<snip>

> I was simply wondering if his
> Usenet persona might be unique and that he's pretty normal in other
> activities.

Dan is not that bad, He is a kook, and perhaps has a sense of inflated
self-importance, but that is hardly rare. He isn't a delusional lunatic.

More about Avital Pilpel, and this person's devoted following of James Randi here.

---

Dan Kettler writes:
 

The above is just a small sample of the writing of followers, the dedicated defenders of James Randi.
They write like zealots, and fill newsgroups like alt.paranormal with fanatical anti-paranormal propaganda.

Their hostility is actually intimidating to would-be participants who are proponents of the subjects, and that
is the reason that nearly all the posts appearing in these newsgroups, designated about the subjects, are
against the subjects.

For a showing of the impact of this fanatical anti-paranormal, anti-astrology behavior, see the links from...

                            http://www.psicounsel.com/news/index.html

Here is the writing of Edmond H. Wollmann about this fanaticsm in newsgroups.

I do carefully describe James Randi's followers when they lie about people and make derogatory references to them, but I don't lie about them, or denigrate them for their unbelief, as Randi and his followers do because of people's practices, writing and spoken word of subjects like REMOTE VIEWING.

It's obviously an illogical assumption...

...that Art Bell was not supposed to have permitted the presentation of theories about a Hale-Bopp companion object because some of these ideas supposedly influenced a cult. It infers that many ideas should not be permitted public view, for fear that someone may commit suicide because of them. It infers that many books should be banned -- especially the Christian Bible, as people might crucify themselves to emulate Christ.

NOTE:   For postings found on linked pages which are noted as having DEJA links, go to and enter the "From:" address in the space designated author.Enter one of the newsgroups shown in the message header, and some of the text of the posting in the "with the exact phrase" area  Then, you should find the correct message.  Later on,will refine their search procedure.

has acquired the archives of  DEJA, and they have committed themselves to restoring user access all the way back to the year 1995.  For more information, click here.

Please send me e-mail if you hear of any new developments after Art Bell read a letter on the air March 7, 1997 from James Randi, who had refused to appear on the Art Bell program.

1. There is a 1.1 million dollar bait, referred to by Pat Lyons as "...a prize that Randi has long offered for compelling proof of anything paranormal."

2. Major Ed Dames is now a widely publicized, and previously prominently positioned U.S. Military Psychic "Remote Viewer."  During an interview with Art Bell (use "Randi" in a search function of your Web Browser) Dames offered James Randi, on-the-air, the opportunity to discuss the procedure for being tested. The discussion would be on a future Art Bell Radio Show, and the testing off the air.

The apparent reason for this proposed discussion, in my opinion, was that Ed Dames had made public statements that James Randi would not respond to his offer to be tested, while nearly simultaneously, James Randi was making an accusation about Ed Dames' alleged refusal to be tested.

It seems, others are having similar problems communicating with James Randi.

3. Randi had previously offered negotiation of test procedure with prospective persons being tested, and this was shown at his WEB SITE: http://www.randi.org -- see "challenge." The provisions for the "challenge" may have changed by the time you read this.

"Since claims will vary greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for each claimant."

"The eventual test procedure must be agreed upon by both parties before any testing procedures will take place."

"...claimant and Mr. Randi will agree upon, just what powers or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration..."

"We do not design the protocol independently of the claimant."

"...the rules which will be agreed upon by all parties in advance of any formal testing procedure taking place."

a.      There is no expense or travel necessary to be present on-
           the-air, via telephone on the Art Bell show. (http://www.artbell.com)

b.      Though Randi's requirement includes a signed statement, that
           may be arranged after the on-air discussion.

c.      I, Dan Kettler, notified James Randi at randi@randi.org repeatedly of this offer.
         The NET has archives of my public messages, and randi@randi.org in e-mail was
         included as a "CC" in many of them:

         This site holds past postings  http://www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml

Randi's continued refusal to negotiate is shown by his not offering to appear on the Art Bell
show to discuss a procedure for testing Ed Dames, with no counter-offer for another
mode of communication since March 1997.

Bruce Kettler

Remote Viewing (RV) according to its chief spokesmen recently, consists of an ability to see the past, present and future.   RV about the future raises philosophical questions.

I will address two of them, briefly, in this posting.
 

1. Free will and fate
2. Alternate realities

Free Will And Fate

       It's a complex subject, and there are many lengthy explanations.

Whether we discuss world prophecy, or predictions for individuals, it seems to many that people cannot have free-will and also experience predetermined events in their lives.

Actually, both free-will and predicted outcomes work together.  No probable future, in my opinion, exists without the ability for it to be reversed through the determined and enlightened free-will of spiritual beings, which people who accept Jesus as their savior, are.

Alternate Realities

According to this theory, whatever future world condition you as an individual experience, can be different than others.  We all seem to be part of the same world, so therefore all in that world, it seems, must experience the same world conditions.

In the alternate reality theory, there is more than one dimension, physical reality being one.  Also, within that physical realm, there exists more than one reality.  An example could be that many of the prophecies about California earthquakes could have come true, and people were "killed," so there are wiped out sections of California no longer on their maps, while in your reality you have not heard anything about that, because you are experiencing a different physical reality.  This, of course, is all nonsense.  Only one reality occurs.

We create our own collective reality -- consciously or unconsciously, and you are much closer in touch with the creator within you when you invoke that power, rather than being led along by the predictions of others, or seeing those predictions as unchangeable.  Taking the two ideas above, alternate realities and fate/free will, I would ask people not to dwell upon the predictions of mere mankind, or to make rigid plans in your life based upon them.  Look, instead, at end time prophecy from the Bible. I feel that some predictions are valid and good to know, but to believe any are cut in stone, to me, appears to be giving up your own position as a co-creater in the reality we share.