BK Note July 2005 --  I've revised my own writing somewhat -- mostly grammar corrections.  Some of the
                                    other person's writing is cut somewhat for brevity and to stay on the point..

From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology

Subject: Ed Wollmann alleged cancellations NCAT <was> Re: Proven "terrorism"
             definitions NCAT Net Censorship and Terrorism

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:32:06 -0800
Message-ID: <3852DEF6.734BFAA4@psicounsel.com>


Matt Kriebel wrote:

> > > <snip> In July of 1997, he [Wollmann] issued a rash of over 50
> > >        illegitimate third-party cancels...

> > > BK:  Prove it!

MK:   http://www.smbtech.com/ed/edcancels.html

MK:  He lost his aznet account over that activity.

BK:  So you allege.  Lost perhaps, but because of that?

Alleged cancels from the AZNET account were in July 1997.

AZNET writes the following to EHW in OCTOBER 1997:

      After giving you every opportunity to let
      the controversial threads subside, I am
      resigned to the fact that you are and will
      always be abrasive....

Edmond H. Wollmann (EHW) was dismissed from AZNET [an Internet Service Provider (ISP)]
allegedly for being "abrasive" in October, but nothing about cancels in July.  If Matt Kriebel were
correct, then EHW would have lost his account in July, not October.




Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:10:04
     To: Jack Bailey <jjb@zNET.com>
     From: Edmond Wollmann <wollmann@mail.sdsu.edu>
     Subject: Re: Account


     >>We're all very tired of getting and answering complaints
          about you.

     >> <snip> stop responding to criticism in
     >>newsgroups, and to stop fanning the flames...

EHW: Why must I not respond to criticism?


EHW:  Why would you want to censor me?

     From: "Nidiffer" <shebunker@usa.net>
     Date: Wed, Oct 29, 1997 20:05 EST


     >>> Edmond, you have forced me to complain to your isp
             about posting this list over and over again. <snip>

EHW: You are letting disingenuous liars convince you that
           I am the problem they are obnoxious to me left and


EHW:      So here after he cancels my account (for something
                someone else posted) I bring up his comments that
                prove he is bigoted against astrology;


     Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:19:50
     To: Jack Bailey <jjb@zNET.com>
     From: Edmond Wollmann <wollmann@mail.sdsu.edu>


EHW: If you had one ounce of integrity you would see that right
           in this persons message ID is the name skepticult - this is
           the group that has targeted me and complained repeatedly
           for ANYTHING.

DK comment:  What is the Skepticult organization?


              A group of bigots, censors, and terrorists.



END OF QUOTES FROM WOLLMANN SITE.   Note, not one word about his account
being cut off because of WOLLMANN CANCELLING POSTS.  Here is another example
of CENSORING BIGOTS, and what they do on the INTERNET.  Thank you for
having me dig this up, Matt Kriebel.


The following can be verified in the DEJANEWS archives by clicking here.

From: gothic@netaxs.com (Matt Kriebel)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Ed Wollmann alleged cancellations NCAT <was>
             Re: Proven "terrorism" definitions NCAT Net
             Censorship and Terrorism
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:00:18 -0500
Message-ID: <gothic-1112992000180001@ppp45.blackbox1-mfs.netaxs.com>
In article <3852DEF6.734BFAA4@psicounsel.com>, dan@psicounsel.com wrote:


I have made a mistake here in alledging that Wollmann lost his aznet
account solely due to his canceling of posts... <snip>

... Kettler: Even if Wollmann didn't cancel messages...
<snip irrelevancy>

BK: Note the doubt expressed by Matt Kriebel regarding
        alleged cancelled posts by EHW.

> BK:  That is _not_ proof, and you know it.  People ask me,
> .... all the time to prove the cancels that are written
> .... about on this web page.
> BK:  Web pages do not prove cancels.  In fact, it's
> .... difficult to impossible to prove who cancels
> .... certain posts.

Even though the cancels alleged on my web page are not
yet conclusively proven, there is proof of many of the
other items (13 total) I have documented links (proofs)

> > > BK:  Prove it.  I showed on my web pages an alleged cancel from
> > >      Wollmann, in the "other.html" page.  The cancel was shown to be
> > >      a forgery, to blame Wollmann for it.

> MK: There are *fifty* headers
> MK: showing Wollman to have cancelled messages...

> Headers do not prove, either.  First, there's the AZNET domain,
> which houses a number of members.  Then, "AZNET" can be forged.
> You have been on the net a long time, and you know this.

BK: A message-ID can be forged. It's possible to hack... <snip>

>     At the following site...
>            http://www.psicounsel.com/cancel.html
> ...just from the posts of ADMINS about numerous cancels,
> with my exchange about those cancels, one can readily see
> that ADMINS have a hard time knowing who is cancelling
> posts when the message IDs are not correct.

Let's look at some of these posts allegedly cancelled by Wollmann.


Subject:      cmsg cancel <ea5_9707050943@ronly.org>

 From:         Edmond Wollmann <wollmann@aznet.net>

 Date:         1997/07/13

 Message-ID:   <33C91597.2384@aznet.net>



Are you going to tell me Wollmann cares about posts in the above newsgroups?  His concern is
astrology, primarily.


 Subject:      cmsg cancel <abbaclone.200.0365A58D@hotmail.com>

 From:         Edmond Wollmann <wollmann@aznet.net>

 Date:         1997/07/16

 Message-ID:   <33CD46CC.5A17@aznet.net>




When has EHW complained about posts in the above newsgroups, without an
astrology NG crosspost?


No, these are "rogue" cancels, and EHW is the likely scapegoat
identification placed.  He's an easy target for rogue cancellers,
because he posts so much in NEWS ADMIN NET-ABUSE USENET


Subject:      cmsg cancel <94c_9707050513@ronly.org>

 From:         Edmond Wollmann <wollmann@aznet.net>

 Date:         1997/07/13

 Message-ID:   <33C9167D.2565@aznet.net>


alt.sex.phone, alt.sex.pictures, alt.sex.pictures.female,
alt.sex,alt.sex, alt.sex.anal, alt.sex.services, alt.sex.pictures,
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica, alt.binaries.pict


Forgeries allegedly from EHW once were abundant in the USENET archives (until EHW cancelled
them).  The above, alleged, cancel of EHW is ridiculous.  The above newsgroups are typical targets
of "rogue" cancellers.  To assume EHW would cancel posts to the above newsgroups is ridiculous.

EHW has written quite a few times about other alleged posts from himself, that they were forgeries,
and it was quite apparent upon careful examination that they were forgeries.


People writing to USENET that alleged EHW posts are all really from him
are naive, or blatant liars.  I don't know how many of those on the
Wollmann defamation site are forgeries.

Just today I read a quoted post from the site that people PARROT from.
It was out of context.  I answered that all one had to do was read my site,
and see that the quote, in context, showed no violent threats from


                     dan (at) psicounsel com

                    www  psicounsel  com / news

From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology
Subject: Proven "terrorism" definitions NCAT Net
             Censorship and Terrorism
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:16:06 GMT
Message-ID: <82qcs5$emu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


BK comment:  A number of forgeries have appeared
                        in the newsgroups, posts allegedly from
                        EHW.  That casts some doubt regarding
                        the quotes shown, which follow

MK:  ...poor innocent Wollmann, victim of
         terrorism (snort) After all, Wollman
         never said...

      "Remove your defamation or I'll walk
       down there and yank it off" _wollman_

BK:  Many statements of EHW have been called threats
       of physical violence, but when taken in context
       show entirely different.  I have a quote on my web
       site from PSF, which when magnified show it did
       not mean what had been alleged.

     Other alleged statements of EHW never were said,
     since there have been so many forgeries in the

EHW:  ...kick the f**k out of you, talk like
           this-AND STILL post something of value"

MK:  Say that sounds kinda threatin...

BK:  Actually, not threatening.  However, the quotes from
        certain PSF linked from the above referenced Web
        page are definately threatening.  The only threatening
        thing about EHW, actually, to the PSF is that he *does*
        post valuable information, he is intelligent, and he
        writes about astrology credibly.

     He kicks a*s in debates all the time.  That's threatening.

     Another thing is that he will not let you people take over
     the Internet, with him lying down, while you walk all over
     every proponent who is demanding, and others who will
     demand the freedom they are entitled to.

EHW: "I will STAY and send 100,000 complaints
          to every insitution (sic) on the planet
          and more if action is not taken."

BK:  If a policeman threatens a criminal with a gun, to cease
        his criminal act, that is not wrong.  The wrong act is
       of the criminal.  The person threatening to defend themself
       has that right.  If EHW threatens 100,000 complaints, and
       if the complaints are legitimate, as I see they actually are,
       then what's the problem?

MK: Hmmm sounds kind of like blackmail there...

BK: Nope


MK:  Whao! harsh out Wollman!

BK:  You seem to have problems with rational interpretation,
         and rational thought, or telling the truth.

MK quoting EHW:   "8000 complaints lined up."

MK:  Don't worry, Kettler still likes you.

BK:  Sarcasm, from you, says nothing rational.

EHW:  ...complaints to all state agencies sent for
           stalking an harassment."

BK:   And, are you saying, PSF don't stalk and harass?
          Since this is their habit, and has been for decades,
          what's wrong with a million complaints?

BK:  Wow, threatening people with a gov't agency.
          Nothig came of this, aren't there laws about

BK:  I will threaten anyone with a government agency if
        the person is breaking the law in their actions against
        me.  No-one can rightly fault me, or call me a censor,
        or terrorist for that.

EHW allegedly:  "Complaints for threatening violence
         and abuse sent to FBI. "

BK: Did he write that, or any of the other things I quote, here
       from you?  I know of some of it, but I'm not sure of all
       that you quote.

      Still, it does not prove anything, what you quote.

MK:  Well. lots of efforts at intimidation and blackmail...

         are the TERRORISTS, and PROPONENTS LIKE


                     dan (at) psicounsel com

                    www  psicounsel  com / news