Message-Id: <199911201630.KAA23672@x28.deja.com>
From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>
Subject: Analysis of PSF motives and attitudes (APMA) (part 1) <was> Re: [alt.paranormal] Rational Investigation FAQ
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:30:27 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology,alt.paranet.ufo,talk.religion.newage
 

First, what is "PSF"?

         P seudo
         S keptic
         F anatic

         http://www.psicounsel.com/pseufana.html

A nalysis (of)
P SF
M otives (and)
A attitudes

June 2009 addition to page:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30#p44

                            http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/

Motivation of Denial of the Paranormal

Postby brucekettler on Sat May 23, 2009 7:17 pm

The skeptic pages I have worked on for the past decade are linked from:

http://www.psicounsel.com/page9328-a.htm

GOOGLE or YAHOO - type in: skeptics what they do and why

On those pages you will find dialogue with "skeptics" from myself, and others. Don't confuse "Dan" with "Bruce" They are the same person. One is my middle name, and the latter is my first.

For the past 5 years, I have changed my primary focus from "skeptics" so-called to those people who make them. Look at my web pages to learn more about those who make them:

http://www.brucekettler.com

...mainly from the fruits of their labors: malfunctioning families, mental illness from conditioning, mass murder, starvation, wars, disease, fascism, dictatorships, etc.

I had always wondered at the irrationality of the so-called "skeptic," but now I understand it. They are, simply, brainwashed, usually in Academic Institutions, by people who receive their orders from PEOPLE WHO NOT ONLY BELIEVE IN THE PARANORMAL, BUT WHO WANT OTHERS TO NOT BELIEVE IN IT.

To a great extent, that is because they USE the paranormal. They do not want others to have access to powers they possess, and use, to bring humanity to a degraded state, powerless before them, and unable to defeat their agenda. The widespread use of the occult, and their public rituals, are well known by those who have researched the so-called "elite."

The same is true of alternative medicine, and the practice of eating pure food. The "elite" so-called eat very well, and are not victims of the same "practice" of medicine that they pass on, through channels, when educating future doctors about what "practice" to engage in.

So, in dealing with those who call the paranormal "hogwash," understand that is not what they, themselves, arrived at through research and careful thought. It is what was shoved down their throats. Often enough, those professors who push it on the students do not understand what they are doing.

Most of the minions, and puppets, of the "elite" are subject to the "practice" of conventional medicine.

Check out my comments page, and note my replies to those who constantly asked me to provide "credentials" for what I'd been writing about the "elite" and how the U.S. is governed. These are letters to the editor of a newspaper:

http://www.psicounsel.com/comment.html

Politically, 2 people writing letters were completely brainwashed by media and academia. They replied to my writing, and were psychologically unable to check the references I'd given. I'd used accepted academic methodology for ascertaining, and reporting, facts.

I purchased 3 college textbooks, and excerpted writing about research from all 3. You can read it on this page:

http://www.psicounsel.com/research.html

For now, this is all I have to write about the subject.

brucekettler
 
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 6:38 pm

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1.  Are defenses of so-called "claims" an obligation?

2.  It is normal" to discuss differences of opinion.

3.  Other People's Business

4.   The Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder

5.   The "Self-Sacrificing" mentality

6.   Why newsgroups are in upheaval

       PAGE 2

7.     The paranoia of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC (PSF) -- fundamentalism

        A. Fundamentalism and the "either-or" mentality

        B. Fundamentalism as it relates to dualistic thinking, or as I call it, "binary" limitations.

8.     The PSF say astrologers, paranormalists, and UFO researchers need "help."

9.     Fanaticsm -- fundamentalism -- doctrines

        PAGE 3

10.    Other people's analysis of the PSF mentality

11.   Motivation of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC from the metaphysical perspective

12.   Motivation of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC from the psychological perspective.

        Delusion

        Beliefs

        Childhood trauma

        Irrational fear

        Manifestations of bigotry

In article <paranormal/rational_942924631@rtfm.mit.edu>,
Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Last-modified: 1998/10/10

> URL: http://www.sidaway.demon.co.uk/paranormal/rational.txt

Sherilyn writes:

      I offer it as of potential use mainly to people
      wondering why alt.paranormal is in such constant
      upheaval.

================================================================

            *** Analysis of PSF Motives--attitudes ***

            (part 1)

Let's look to, as Sherilyn puts it, an analysis
of "some of the psychology of the situation."

What situation?  The problem that Sherilyn
cites of those interested in the paranormal and
astrology and UFO research as proponents, expressing
themselves regarding "skeptic" activity, and their
replies to so-called "skeptics" in posts.

Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> More recently I have produced a FAQ that analyzes
> some of the psychology of the situation
> and asks for proponents of the paranormal to
> adopt some commonsense rules of critical thought
> in defending their claims...

One problem is with your psychology, your attitude,
your assumptions, is known by the careful observer.

Let us examine the statement, above.  It is worthy
of investigation because it is a reflection of the
attitude of others, and which I've written about
on the following WEB PAGE:

         http://www.psicounsel.com/freedom.html

You are assuming, in your statement, that defense of
so-called "claims" is an obligation.  You, and others
of your mind-SET assume the same.  I have copied some
of their posts to my web pages (above) to illustrate
this fact.

Sherilyn writes:

      I offer it as of potential use mainly to people
      wondering why alt.paranormal is in such constant
      upheaval.

Answers, we sure do have some for you...

      PROVEN, DOCUMENTED FACTS, on pages linked from...

      NET CENSORSHIP AND TERRORISM (NCAT)

      http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html

SHER: (some already do this, but those who
do not are more noisy and attract much unwelcome
attention which they interpret as harassment).

Oh, I see, the "good" people are sure to "defend"
their "claims."  Oh, and those who are quite adamant
about not considering them claims, but rather normal
discussion in newsgroups like alt.paranormal, alt.astrology,
and alt.paranet.ufo, they are "noisy."

See, the "unwelcome attention" you refer to is simply
the result of having exposed harassment.  Disagreement
of points of view is not harassment.

This is harassment:

             Lying denigration of character from fanatics

             Misrepresentation of what others have written

             Continual demands for proof with accusations of
             "fraud" for refusal.

             Blackmail -- threats to attempt to force
                          people to post a certain way

             Censorship as proven on the NCAT page

==================================================================

As I wrote before:

There is very little "attraction" of unwelcome attention,
interpreted as "harassment."  The actual harassment,
mostly, comes constantly from pseudo-skeptics without
provocation, and has for years.

==================================

End part 1

Part 2 of "Analysis of PSF Motives--attitudes" will follow

--

    Psychics, Astrologers, UFOs,
    Mysticism and the Newsgroups
          What's happening?
    http://www.psicounsel.com/news
 
 
 

PSF pseudo-skeptic-fanatic

-----------------------------------------------------------------

NET CENSORSHIP AND TERRORISM (NCAT)

http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html
 
 

I believe it is normal" to discuss differences of opinion.

It is, without a doubt, legal and normal for anyone to post to an alt
group their differences of opinion.

I have opinions of debate activity, and they are written at a URL:

             http://www.psicounsel.com/faqevid.html

However, they are opinions, and I do not incessantly write protests
about my opinions of LAWFUL activity to USENET, as the fanatics do.
People carry on skeptic discussions all the time in newsgroups, and I
seldom comment against such activity.

I write often about NET CENSORSHIP AND TERRORISM because it is
actionable by civil and criminal proceedings, and it can result in
termination of INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER accounts.  I want those
intimidated by such activity to realize their rights, and what they
can do to end such activity so they may post without being censored.
See the signature web site in this post.

If one does not believe astrology has validity, if UFO's are
extraterrestrial, or if there is paranormal activity, certainly a post
now and then expressing that view is acceptable.

However, to the rational mind, discussions between proponents of these
subjects in certain designated newsgroups is just that, discussion, not
"challengable claims."  Only the irrational fanatic would consider them
worthy of *demanded* proof, with those demands not responded to worthy
of NCAT activity to attempt or accomplish CONTROL.

Reposting within the acceptable limits of INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS and
USENET POLICY, is normal and helpful, and only an irrational fanatic, or
person attempting deliberate MIND CONTROL, would publicly protest such
activity incessantly.

If one does not understand the postings of Edmond H. Wollmann in
alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych because ones mind-set is
different, and one does not believe astrology has validity, that is
reason to pose questions, but not to harass him incessantly, and
denigrate his character repeatedly every time he posts.

That is not normal behavior.

If one does not agree that there is such a thing as remote viewing or
psychic development, that is no reason to automatically reply with
negative remarks about me personally, to each and every post.

That is not normal behavior.
 

PART 3       --- other people's business ---

Let's look to, as Sherilyn puts it, an analysis
of "some of the psychology of the situation."

Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> More recently I have produced a FAQ that analyzes
> some of the psychology of the situation... <snip>

She referred to a different exact situation, and I covered
that one in a previous post.  However, the general psychology
of the situation I refer to here is worthy of investigation.

PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF) spend an inordinate amount
of time concerning themselves with policies and procedures
in...

             alt.paranormal
             and
             alt.astrology
             and
             alt.astrology.metapsych

...with incessant complaints about reposting OF THE SUBJECTS astrology
and the paranormal and complaints about alleged "spam." Also, the
PSF write and repeatedly repost deceptive FAQS and so-called
CHARTERS for these newsgroups.

Are these newsgroups so much their business?  Well, in a legal sense,
yes all the newsgroups can be anyone's business.  But, in a social,
common sense, manner, is it?

No, in my opinion the creation of FAQ or CHARTERS is none of their
business.  Their incessant and deceptive PROTESTS against the LAWFUL AND
ACCEPTABLE practices of proponents are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

As I, and others, see it, the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS want to
control the activities in alt.astrology, alt.astrology.metapsych, and
alt.paranormal.  In fact, to some extent, they are
doing so.

See:

           NET CENSORSHIP AND TERRORISM (NCAT)

           http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html

What shows they are fanatics, as in the PSF (pseudo-skeptic-fanatic)
acronym?

See the above description of activities recorded in the DEJANEWS
archives -- their FANATICAL and incessant activities with other people's
business.

Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> More recently I have produced a FAQ that analyzes
> some of the psychology of the situation...<snip>

Yes, Sherilyn, let us look at the psychology of the
situation, that situation I've described in the previous
3 parts.  Readers not familiar with the previous posts
may access them through DEJANEWS www.deja.com (use
"power search")

PART 4 > >  The Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder

From: "Edmond H. Wollmann" <arcturian1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Obesssed/Compulsive control freaks that
         cannot find a life of their own Re: Integrity

Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:20:24 -0800

Message-ID: <3836F478.58C@yahoo.com>

<snip>

Diagnostic criteria for 300.3 Obsessive~Compulsive Disorder

        A. Either obsessions or compulsions:

Obsessions as defined by (1), (2), (3), and (4):

        (1) recurrent and persistent thoughts, impulses,
            or images that are experienced, at some time
            during the disturbance, as intrusive
            and inappropriate and that cause marked
            anxiety or distress
        (2) the thoughts, impulses, or images are not simply
            excessive worries about real-life problems
        (3)  the person attempts to ignore or suppress such thoughts,
             impulses, or images, or to neutralize them with
             some other thought or action
        (4) the person recognizes that the obsessional
            thoughts, impulses, or images are a product
            of his or her own mind (not imposed from
            without as in thought insertion)

     Compulsions as defined by (1) and (2):

     (1)  repetitive behaviors (e.g., hand washing, ordering, checking)
          or mental acts (e.g., praying, counting, repeating
          words silently that the person feels driven to
          perform in response to an obsession, or
          according to rules that must be applied rigidly

[DK comment --- replying with derogatory comments about certain
                individuals to EACH AND EVERY POST of theirs
                for years]

(2)   the behaviors or mental acts are aimed at preventing or
reducing distress or preventing some dreaded event or situation;
however, these behaviors or mental acts either are not connected in a
realistic way with what they are designed to neutralize or prevent or
are clearly excessive

[DK comment --- PSEUDO-SKEPTIC FANATICS "dread" the event of anyone
                reading about the paranormal or astrology and being
                influenced by that writing to what they consider
                must be an adverse result.  There is nothing real
                about what they "dread," and their activity is
                most definately excessive.]

     B. At some point during the course of the disorder,
        the person has recognized that the obsessions or
        compulsions are excessive or unreasonable.  Note:
        This does not apply to children.

     C. The obsessions or compulsions cause marked distress,
        are time consuming (take more than 1 hour a day),
        or significantly interfere with the person's normal
        routine, occupational (or academicj functioning,
        or usual social activities or relationships.

    [DK comment --- PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS relate to people
                                on the INTERNET as if it was, in fact,
                                their very life they were living there.]

    D. If another Axis I disorder is present, the content
       of the obsessions or compulsions is not restricted
       to it (e.g., preoccupation with food in the presence
       of an Eating Disorder;  hair pulling in the presence
       of Trichotillomania; concern with appearance in the
       presence of Body Dysmorphic Disorder; preoccupation
       with drugs in the presence of a Substance Use
       Disorder; preoccupation with having a serious
       illness in the presence of Hypochondriasis;
       preoccupation with sexual urges or fantasies in
       the presence of a Paraphilia; or guilty ruminations
       in the presence of Major Depressive Disorder).

    E.  The disturbance is not due to the direct
        physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a
        drug of abuse, a medication) or a general
        medical condition.

Specify if:

      With Poor Insight:  if, for most of the time
      during the current episode, the person does not
      recognize that the obsessions and compulsions
      are excessive or unreasonable.

>>http://astroconsulting.com/FAQs/psychedef.htm
>>--
>>Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
>>© 1999 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
>>Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
>>Artworks http://www.astroconsulting.com/personal/
>>http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/tableof.htm

Re: Analysis of PSF motives and attitudes (part 5) <was> Re: [alt.paranormal] Rational Investigation FAQ

Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> More recently I have produced a FAQ that analyzes
> some of the psychology of the situation...

DK:  Yes, that is a great idea.

     This examination, from me, is of the
     psychology of the situation of PSEUDO-SKEPTIC
     FANATIC (PSF) activity in newsgroups that are
     about subjects the FANATICS do not believe in.

Part 5   ---  The "Self-Sacrificing" mentality

The True Believer_, a book from the 1950's by Eric Hoffer, has much
useful information about fanatics.

The writing of Eric Hoffer,  The True Believer, Thoughts on the Nature
of Mass Movements

In the chapter, "Factors Promoting Self Sacrifice," we read the
following:

        The fanatic is perpetually incomplete and
        insecure. He cannot generate self-assurance
        out of his individual resources -- out of
        his rejected self -- but finds it only by
        clinging passionately to whatever support
        he happens to embrace.

In the chapter, "Unifying Agents":

     Whence come these unreasonable hatreds, and why
     their unifying effect? They are an expression of
     desperate effort to suppress an awareness of
     our inadequacy, worthlessness, guilt and other
     shortcomings of the self. Self-contempt is here
     transmuted into hatred of others -- and there
     is a most determined and persistent effort to
     mask this switch. Obviously, the most effective
     way of doing this is to find others, as many as
     possible, who hate as we do. Here, more than
     anywhere else we need general consent, and much
     of our proselytizing consists perhaps in infecting
     others not with our brand of faith but with our
     particular brand of unreasonable hatred.

----------------------------------------------------------------
The following revised by Dan Kettler for the purpose of brevity.
----------------------------------------------------------------

From: Edmond H. Wollmann
Subject: Re: Challenge to Paul (and other cynics)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:22:36 -0800

If you were behaving sensibly you would be posting in a group that you
were FOR instead of against.

We, proponents of astrology are past trying to prove our ideas.

Cynics or so-called "skeptics" try to prove theirs, so that perhaps they
can believe them themselves.

Rational people, on the other hand, are more interested in advancing
their interests with those of like minds because they know its just a
matter of preference and one doesn't have anymore "power" than the other
to know "the" truth.

This is because you cynics or so-called "skeptics" are "safety and
security" types of Maslow's hierarchy of needs ** and are trying to get
to esteem and acceptance.

Because you approach it from the negative point of view rather than the
positive, you try to hack away at the esteem of others because you are
jealous. You have difficulty recognizing your own sense of
powerlessness, therefore.

Now, if you were to follow what inspired or excited you, and became an
expert in that area, you could then participate in that group's
endeavors, and enhance your sense of worth and esteem.

You will have to honestly look at yourself and your motives.  The ego is
intent on PROVING itself, so anything not reinforcing to this negative
ego is a threat.

Positive ego sees everything must be there for a reason.

                Of course if you reject this explanation
                there is always the analogous option:

If I hate politics, watch it on TV, criticize it, and go to political
rallies to convince people how bad politics is.

     Would it not be logical to assume that:

     A) I'm an idiot.
     B) I'm wasting my life in pursuits I do not prefer.
     C) I am too stupid too realize it will have no effect
        on whether OTHER people like politics or not.
     D) I have absolutely no understanding of myself --
        simple psychology,
     E) This is my reaction formation or projection.

My lesson is obviously to "cast not your pearls to swine, lest they turn
and rend you and trample them under their feet." So, I must retreat from
this. Perhaps someone else will find it useful.

     ----

"If a man likes the whip and you whip him to try to punish him, you're
just making a fool out of yourself." Charles Manson

If you don't get this I really feel sorry for you [all].

     --

     Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
     © 1998 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
     Astrological Consulting
     http://www.astroconsulting.com

     ** SEE: "self actualization" post here...

     http://www.psicounsel.com/astrposts2.html#selfact

--

    Psychics, Astrologers, UFOs,
    Mysticism and the Newsgroups
          What's happening?
    http://www.psicounsel.com/news

Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> More recently I have produced a FAQ that analyzes
> some of the psychology of the situation...

You opened a proverbial "can of worms."  I'm going to
discuss the "psychology of the situation."  I think
it's a great idea, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Part 6 > > > Why newsgroups are in upheaval

Sherilyn wrote:

           ...people wondering why alt.paranormal
           is in such constant upheaval.

Yes, people wonder why it, alt.astrology, alt.astrology.metapsych
and other newsgroups, are in "constant upheaval."

Let us examine that.

You wrote:

        I don't believe the gulf between skeptics
        and believers is as wide as some people
        like to make out...

The newsgroup you write of is alt.paranormal.  I believe this
also concerns alt.astrology and others.  Fanatics, and fanatical
behavior is the issue, not skeptics.  A skeptic merely points
to a difference of opinion.  I and most others have no objection
to their activity.
 

Fanatics have brought NET CENSORSHIP AND TERRORISM (NCAT)

             http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html
 

Newsgroups are in upheaval because of HATE-CULT activity -- that
of control-freaks.

             http://www.psicounsel.com/cult.html
 

FAQ OF NEWSGROUP CHAOS, with connecting links, shows the nature
of this CHAOS, and some of the links tell what can be done to
bring the chaos to a halt.

             http://www.psicounsel.com/faqchaos.html

--

   Psychics, Astrologers, UFOs,
    Mysticism and the Newsgroups
          What's happening?
    http://www.psicounsel.com/news