PART 10

In article <paranormal/rational_942924631@rtfm.mit.edu>,
  Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

        I offer it as of potential use mainly
        to people wondering why alt.paranormal
        is in such constant upheaval.

This is part 10.  The other parts start at...

        http://www.psicounsel.com/why.html

PART 10:  Other people's analysis of the PSF mentality

Looking at the psychology of the pseudo-skeptic-fanatic (PSF),
the other parts of this discourse answer the question as to
"why alt.paranormal is in such constant upheaval."

================================================================

To examine the PSF beliefs and mentality from the perspective of other people
who have written about the PSF on the NET, click here.

What does Ingo Swann, pioneer of Remote Viewing, say?  What is Remote Viewing?

What does UFO researcher Jean van Gemert say about their belief structures?

Over a period of years, the author of this web page, Dan Kettler, witnessed certain
patterns of sexual behavior and attitudes amongst those who are obsessed fanatics.
They exhibited blatant, obsessive, and hostile ANTI-PARANORMALIST,
ANTI-ASTROLOGER attitudes.

I'm not going to provide names, here.  It is for the reader to access DEJA, for
archives of past posts, and searching for key words like "sex" "pedophile" and others
left to your imagination.  Look in the newsgroups alt.paranormal and alt.astrology,
principally.

              Click here for DEJA NEWS

I'll explain here, briefly, what I've found.

Some paranormalists have discovered pedophile activities of PSF reported
in mainstream media.

Others have found police records, and placed that information in the USENET
NEWSGROUPS.  Repeatedly, PSF write false allegations of paranormalists,
supposedly, being pedophiles, or other sexual misconduct, but no proof.  In every
case (I've observed)  that paranormalists have reported the PSF, some
record exists of a reporting in news media, or of a police record.

Some reports of PSF are of child molestation -- some of the same sex with
underage youth, and others with the underaged of the opposite sex.

I'm not, here, condemning homosexuality between consenting adults.  I'm
pointing to patterns noted amongst PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS
(PSF) in an effort to uncover what links may exist between certain
sexual orientation, and the beliefs.

If you look at the newsgroups through DEJA NEWS you will discover
at least one theory concerning the connection between cruelty, abuse,
pedophile activity, and ANTI-PSYCHIC attitudes.

========================================================

Now, I'm going to uncover activity on USENET, partially for a period of
time before I even read it.  I started activity on USENET toward the end
of 1995.

In 1990, Steve Reiser founded the newsgroup, alt.paranormal.

On 4/27/96 he wrote, on USENET:

                   I started this newsgroup in 1990 in an effort to create a forum
                   in which people could simply share their experiences and what
                   they speculated or believed about them without being hounded by
                   skeptics to prove anything.

                  The purpose of this newsgroup is to share paranormal experiences.

                  If you want to debate proof then take it to sci.skeptic and other skeptic
                  newsgroups and LEAVE IT THERE - PLEASE.

                  I quit reading this newsgroup years ago because many skeptics have no
                  respect for a division of interests. My perception is they are no different
                  than Bible thumpers beating your door down to convince you to join their
                  religion. It can be very annoying to a group that would like to discuss the
                  paranormal openly without some skeptic screaming "prove it" or constantly
                  deriding people for their belief in even the possibility of paranormal experience.

Now, I'm going to report the names that people have called PSF over the decade
from 1990 to the year 2000:

My only contribution to this list was the word, " SKEP-TI-CULT. "

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of the derogatory terms about Pseudo-Skeptic-Fanatics are on the
Acronyms and more for newbies page, with links...

        http://www.psicounsel.com/acronym.html

------------------------------------------------------------

This is not about skeptics.  This is about
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF).

The list of derogatory terms about Pseudo-Skeptic-Fanatics, along with the names of most
of the authors of these terms are on the flame.html page.

SKEP-TI-CULT
SKEP-TI-PUNK
DEBUNKERS
SKEP-TO-PATH (as in "sociopath")
CULT RATS
CYNIC
SPINIC (S)pin doctoring (p)ropagandic cy(nics)
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC
SKEPTI-NAZI (There was controversy about this one -- see DEJA for additonal controversy)
EXTREMIST-SKEPTIC
SEPTIC
SKEPTHICK
SKEP-TI-THUG
SEPTIC CULTIST SLIME
SKEP-TI-COID

Some  terms, such as SKEP-TO-PATH go back to long before I ever
even read the Internet.  It's a modified term for sociopath.

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=sociopath

        One who is affected with a
        personality disorder marked
        by aggressive, antisocial behavior.

Those with experience on and off the Net with these
fanatics knows the above is true.  I have a Web page
with links that shows the use of media by these
fanatics both ON and OFF the Net...

       http://www.psicounsel.com/page9328-a.htm

In YAHOO:

       TYPE: skeptics what they do and why

My point, here, is that people have encountered
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF) in the PRO-type
newsgroups, where PRO-ponents of the paranormal,
astrology, UFO research, and New Age ideas discuss
these subjects.

During most of the 90s on the Net, a good number
of people have been disgusted with PSF, their
fanaticism, their bigotry, their hostility, and most
of all their obsessive desire to control.  The terms,
listed above show  that disgust.

As for the above, "aggressive, antisocial behavior," people who have a
strong attiude (backed up by antisocial actions) that they need to
forcefully change the legal actions of others, are sociopaths.

One example of antisocial action is a person who yells
at everyone he/she meets with a fur coat, and with
obvious hostility, condemning them for wearing furs
of animals because of cruelty to the animals that are
killed for their furs.

I'm not saying that such views, or peacful expressions,
are antisocial, only the hostility and interferrence with
others privacy and peace.

Steve Reiser writes:

                  My perception is they are no different
                  than Bible thumpers beating your door
                  down to convince you to join their
                  religion.

Another example of the behavior of sociopaths, to a greater
extreme, is the bombing of abortion clinics.  These people
feel that abortions are murder, but rather than resort to
political channels, through legal methods, they plant bombs.

Picture, if you will, the attitude of people knocking on your
door, having gone house to house because they think that
those who believe differently than they, are wrong, and
in some danger, trying, as Steve Reiser writes,
"...to convince you to join their religion."

I have carefully documented the CENSORING and
TERRORIST activity of these fanatics, and though
they have fought me in these newsgroups about this
issue, the facts remain proven, along with accurate
definitions for the words "censor" and "terrorist."
Debates about meanings of words, and whether
there was actual censorship and terrorism are
recorded on pages linked from the following...

           NET CENSORSHIP AND TERRORISM (NCAT)

           http://www.psicounsel.com/discsens.html

PART 11

PSF = PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC

In article <paranormal/rational_942924631@rtfm.mit.edu>,
  Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

        I offer it as of potential use mainly
        to people wondering why alt.paranormal
        is in such constant upheaval.

DK:   It's in constant upheaval because of the obsessions, in action, of pseudo-skeptic-fanatics.

This is part 11.  The other parts start at...

        http://www.psicounsel.com/why.html

PART 11:  Motivation of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC from the metaphysical perspective

Here we examine the pseudo-skeptic-fanatic and look to parts of themselves that are hidden,
that they, themselves, do not know about.

Looking at this, I take the the most common characteristics, and mesh them with what I've
learned about dimensions of existence, reincarnational experience, other-world/time
interactions, and the physical manifestation we witness and experience.

The obsessive focus of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC is upon the material world.

That is why they are called "fundamentalist materialists."

They focus on the scientific observations of this world: matter, energy, atoms, molecules,
gravity, etc. I'm not referring, here, to the skeptic who doubts any existence beyond the
physical we can see, hear, touch, taste, feel, and measure with instruments.  I'm referring
to the obsessive focus and extreme conviction that this physical existence (as understood
by scientists who are still working from early 20th century physics) is all there is, and
that, essentially, is the make-up of the typical PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC.

The pseudo-skeptic-fanatic movement is to reach a place where people believe we have
reached The End Of Science.  That is the title of a book by John Horgan, a staff writer
for Scientific American.  Here is another linked page about the supposed "end of science"
and the book.  The supposed purity of science is discussed here, and here.

The theory presented is that we...

           "...have come to a juncture in knowledge that
            can only add details to already existing theories..."

            From Book News, Inc. , October 1, 1996

The question is asked:

                      "Is pure science in sight of completely understanding the
                      universe, thereby foreclosing any further revolutionary
                      scientific discoveries?"

                      From Booklist

Of course, that would fit the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC agenda, whether
hidden from their conscious minds, or not.  It excludes the importance of
scientific study of the paranormal and quantum physics.  It reeks of the
fundamentalism I've been writing of in parts of this series.

For current scientific viewpoints, see the Jack Sarfatti  Brian Josephson and David Bohm web sites.

What happens to a PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC when they die?  Well, the world they
live in, here, is a hell of confusion.  The world they experience afterward is the same.  When
they physically die, they are caught in an existence that, to them, cannot be, so they assume
they must still be "alive" physically. It's as delusional as the world they left.  In the same way,
they deny all previous existence, while present here in this dimension.

It seems, to me, like reaching out for some security.  Unconsciously, they remember the
insecurity of moving from existence to existence, fearing each change. It seems they are
saying, emphatically:

                                    This is it, and there can be no more!

The real security is within their own god-consciousness, their soul, which is as secure
as anyone can be, in death, in life, and in other travels of the essence of their being.
In this world, that security exists whether one is rich or poor, and no matter what
conditions exist in the life.  Find out more of the salvation I write of.

Does this warrant compassion?  Yes.  Does it mean rational, spiritually enlightened people
have an obligation to try to save them?  No.  It only means that if such a person asks
you to impart some spiritual knowledge, do so with compassion.  People have the right
to do whatever they please with their own lives.  This writing does not declare that the
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC is beyond reach.  Their essence, through the
transformation of Christ, can be a spiritual, loving consciousness.

Why do I write of PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS?  Obviously, it's not to convert them.
Only Yahweh (God) through the power of the Holy Spirit can convert them.
It's to provide knowledge, so that those who have businesses off the Internet and on the
Internet are aware of the inner workings of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC.  They can
then have weapons of knowledge to legally fight such fanatics if their business is attacked
by proposed or actual censoring legislation.

I write to provide the tools for those wishing to have freedom of speech on the INTERNET,
so they may understand the "control-freak" obsessions of such fanatics, and with that knowledge
be in a more enlightened position to make changes with what written rules exist, and to enlighten
the ADMINS of USENET (who make important decisions) of the true nature of these people.

I write to provide people with the knowledge they need to stop censoring efforts of
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS, so they may expose them if their freedom of speech,
or their freedom to watch TV documentaries about the paranormal, UFO research, etc.
is threatened.

The confusion of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC in this present existence is that
there is far too much in their own instincts which contradicts their belief in physical reality
as the only reality that is.  This is an internal contradiction.  It's not evident to the
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC on a conscious level.  The confusion and hell of
this existence is a perpetual duality, an either-or, this or that, and nothing in between,
in their obviously conditioned and imprisoned minds.  When the intellect is almost all
that is recognized as the identity, and no soul existence, no basic identity beyond the
physical ego existence, then there is nothing but cynicism left for the psyche.

Edmond H. Wollmann writes:

Conclusion? They are cynical and unable to acknowledge larger frameworks within
which fragmented knowledge fits. Because the whole organizes the parts (rather
than science's assertion that the opposite is true), this essentially disables discernment.

Psychology-Inferiority, persistent feeling that one does not measure up to societal
standards and personal fictional standards. Ego lock on physicality [emphasis BK]
and the belief that only psychic material accessible to egoistic functions is "real."
Habitual responses. Inability for holistic cognitions.

People who believe their thinking minds (their physical brains) are what make them
a certain individual, and that existence has no order, no design, no rules of karma,
and that they are helpless before this arbitrary and loveless universe, cannot help but
be cynical about life.

CYNICISM:

On Edmond H. Wollmann's page about propaganda on the net, he writes:

Cynic - From the Greek kynikos, -doglike, churlish. Philos. one of a sect of ancient
Greek philosophers who taught that pleasure is an evil if sought for its own sake, and
made an ostentatious show of contempt for riches and enjoyment.; sneering faultfinder;
one who disbelieves in the goodness of human motives, and who is given to displaying
his disbelief by sneers and sarcasm-cynicism=the practice of a cynic; a morose contempt
of the pleasures and arts in life. Lexicon/Webster

I've noticed this addiction to the idea that intellect is all there is to consciousness.  It
manifests in ridicule of the idea of ceasing thought to open to psychic awareness.  It
shows with the PSF idea that meditation is some abnormal state of mind.  Out-of-body
and near-death experiences are concluded as hallucinations.  What does this tell us?
It shows that fear of loss of identity is the core fear of the PSF.  What prevents
people from being able to allow their consciousness to leave their body?  If we
examine the experiences of those new at this, we find they had a fear of being
away from the body (since they are accustomed to a link between the identity
and the body) often enough, which drew them back to the body very quickly.

There is a fear of not relying on thought processes constantly, (connected with
the physical part of the body: the brain) that which the PSF identifies him/herself as.

This **"mind" also tells them that it, the mind, is what they are.  It is, of course, not.
That is the basic core problem, the delusion, and the confused hellish state of mind
of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC.

Assumption is the precarious and delusional route that all fanatical fundamentalists travel
in this world, and in their transition from one world to another, whether through dreams, in
death, or in trance.

Why do they cling to these obsessions, these assumptions?  They invent all sorts of so-called
"reasons," and they often think they are the one truemotive.  Some say the world is going
bad because of people believing in psychic powers, in astrology, and witchcraft.  They want
to save the world from this.  This, often enough, is on the surface, but in the depths of their
being they fear that which they do not understand.  This has been the manifest motivation of
fundamentalists who censor or kill others in the name of some god, or in the name of
fundamentalist materialism -- to save people from themselves.

If a person is deprived of sleep for long periods of time, whether from drug use, or for other
causes, they exhibit acute symptoms of paranoia.  That, some say, is because they cannot
dream.  In reality, it is because they cannot experience other-worldly states, in dreams.

In the same way, it is not natural for people to walk through life, unable to experience the
impressions from other-worldly states, past lives, telepathy, etc. just because of some
mental block that tells them such impressons, such intuitive knowledge, are nothing but
hallucinations, delusions of voices, and the beginning of insanity.  The ironic truth, here,
is that the insanity they fear is facing them head-on, because of their zealous denial.

Meditation is natural.  It is the shutting down to this world, and an entrance into realms
beyond the intellect, beyond time, and beyond the ego identity.  Meditation, when practiced
regularly about 2 times each day, brings about a more peaceful, relaxed state of mind,
without the person being emotinally upset too often by the events of the day.  Lack of
meditation because of the fear of temporary loss of intellectual exercise (which to the
PSF is their identity--like a fear of death) has the opposite effect.

Whenever anyone writes of possible (hidden from themselves) motives of
PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS, I read with interest.

John Benneth, who's web site is linked here, writes the following:

          You see, telepathy brings people
          together as one. One mind. Anyone
          can tap into this resource...

          But to do so, there is something you
          have to give up, and that's the privacy
          that surrounds all of your little lies.

In this USENET discussion, I commented on the above:

DK:     And, what do PSF do, [in my observation]
           more than any other philosophical, religious,
           or political group?

          They lie.

DK:    I've never witnessed any group that lies
          as often as PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF).

         Their lies are to each other, to others,
         and to their individual selves in a
         completely delusional manner.

        They cannot even remember the lies.

        They forget the paragraph, right
        above, that contradicts the next
        paragraph they write.  It's
        delusional lying.

DK:    Look at the STARBABY lie, as
          one example...

DK:    This really hits the nail on the
           head.  It's all about matters of
           privacy, but this is so buried
           inside of them, they cannot see
           it, readily, themselves.

JB:  Because once you start engaging
       in psychic activity, your life
       becomes an open book to just
       about anyone, because it's a
       two way street. To look inside,
       you too must become transparent.

JB:  This is why I am able to know things
       about people I have never met before, or
       describe people and their looks and their
       circumstances who I have not seen before.

JB:   And what you will find is that FEAR
       OF EXPOSURE is what drives the
       so-called "skeptic" to bleat out
       his silly little threats and ridicules,
       and this is why you have more men as
       skeptics, because men have more to hide
       and more to lose by its revelation.

DK:    I've commented, at length, about the
          abundance of men PSF, one theory of mine
          being that women are more intuitive,
          generally.

         This idea needs to be delved into, also.

DK:    There's need to discuss the matter
          of FEAR OF EXPOSURE, because when
          I expose them, they go to extremes to
          prevent me from doing so again.  My
          web pages document this fact.

JB:   Some [secret] part of [the PSF]... soul
       is reaching out, trying to contact
       others and say, here is what I have
       done! Forgive me. And you can read
       it, you can hear it, and you can
       feel it from them.

JB:   They are afraid of what psi exposes.
        And so they have to declare psychic
        phenomena false to protect their
        secrets, but also reveal them in
        crying out.

       Otherwise, why do they bother to
       write or speak at all?

DK:   I would change that to *why would they
         be obsessed with it?*  Actual
         skeptics who are not obsessed
         may not have the problems Benneth
         mentions.  They write and speak,
         but not obsessively.

JB:  But there is a force in all of us
       that compels us in some way to abjure,
       to speak the truth before the world!

       And the more they denounce, the bigger
       the secret is they think they're hiding,
       and the more they want it exposed.

       Because they know, deep down inside they
       can feel it, that their lives WILL NOT progress
       spiritually without it, in this lifetime, or the
       next one will be even worse!

       And so these pitiful creatures come crawling
       and snarling to me in the physical world, with all
       their threats and lies, while I have to listen to
       their desperate pleadings on the astral plane!

DK:    Interesting.

Benneth on Love, edited by Dan Kettler.  For
full text, consult DEJA.

          Subject: WHY THE CHICKENHAWK DIDN'T SUE
          Date: 02 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT in alt.paranormal:

          The PSF mind-set represents those things that
          keep us apart. It claims Randi has one million
          dollars to pay to anyone to prove that
          love is real, a quantifiable, living energy.

          Because the PSF say Randi's proven
          that love isn't real.  They say love is
          just a human emotion that doesn't have
          any real force or substance to it at all.

          They want you to believe that it's
          all in your head, like that false memory
          syndrome, that's what it is, and when the
          body's dead, the love dies with it.

               But that's not true.

               Love is alive.

acronym: PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC (PSF)

          It lives without the physical body.
          Love doesn't need the PSF perverted
          sense of it to be be love.

          PSF want you to believe that
          everything in the sub-atomic field is
          non-specific, that none of it has any
          real identity.

          They don't want you to even think
          atoms or molecules or even people have
          anything unique about them.

          They want you to believe that you're
          like a cardboard cut out of a human being,
          and that what is really important is what
          people say and think about one another.

          They don't want you to know that
          love is a quantifiable energy. It's the most
          powerful motive force in the universe,
          and it's very specific, and in every
          instance of its manifestation, it is
          unique.

Whatever the sub-motives, the core motives of the PSF are the same.  They are blind denial,
confusion, self-hypnotic repetition of the same internal lies, and fear of the unknown.  Below,
in part 12, I write of the sub-motives.
 
 

PART 12:  Motivation of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC from the psychological perspective

In part 10 of this series, I wrote:

PSF = PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC

               Some paranormalists have discovered pedophile activities of
               PSF reported in mainstream media... Others have found police
               records, and placed that information in the USENET
               NEWSGROUPS.

The pedophile/pseudo-skeptic-fanatic possible connection is not the focus
here, mainly because it's not been thoroughly researched to the best of my
knowledge.

There are core motives, and many sub-motives of pseudo-skeptic-fanatics.  One
may have had a past life experience with witches who hurt him/her badly,  and rather
than deal with such powers as a reality, the person exhibits a present life of denial.
Another person, earlier in this life, had a family that was financially bankrupt because
of fraudulent charlatans posing as "psychics."  Another was ridiculed by parents for
seeing auras, and told they were hallucinations.  Another was ridiculed by teachers
in grade school, or their classmates, for expressions about ideas of the paranormal.
Fear, from past experience, manifests from a variety of conscious and
unconscious origins.

Here I wrote about the "aggressive, antisocial behavior" of the sociopath.
Their behavior is much more extreme than the fanatics.

People who have a strong attiude (backed up by antisocial actions) that
they need to forcefully change the legal actions of others, are sociopaths.

I see, on USENET, the accounts of some of the pseudo-skeptic-fanatics,
their rebellions, and past experiences that seem to have led to their present
fanaticsm.  One account, worthy of note:

"... Fire, brimstone, heaven, hell, eternal damnation, pennance,
 confession, prayer, etc. This would all be laughable if it wasn't
so tragic."

"...I abandoned religion (Dutch Reformed) as a teenager and
never again saw a need to believe in spiritualism of any kind."\

The above quoted can be found in GOOGLE archives.

You can use GOOGLE to find other posts referenced at this site, which
 are not linked directly.

"Do you have any idea what atheism is you dumb little s*it?"

He/she writes:

                 What is your problem with someone being an atheist?
                 Is it necessary for someone to adhere to a belief system?

DK:  An atheist is professing a belief, that there is no
        God.  An agnostic just states their doubt.  Atheism
        is obviously a belief.  The profession that one's
        belief in the non-existence of god, is not belief, is
        in my opinion, delusion.

DK:  This also leads me to the hypothesis, which I stated:
 

DK:   And, in my opinion, your writing on USENET reveals "blind faith"
          in what you  believe to be untrue.  One can have blind faith in the
          truth of something, or  the supposed untruth.

In a certain post, I (DK) wrote:

Person:     In my case, I abandoned religion (Dutch Reformed) as a teenager and
Person:     never again saw a need to believe in spiritualism of any kind.

          DK:  In my opinion, you are fighting an enemy that exists in the figment of your
                   imagination.  It's not a threat to you, nor is it, actually, to anyone else you try
                   to  "save."

And, of course, the person denies my above statement is true.

Here's another account of PSF rebellion, with a reporting of past experiences that seem to have led to early
childhood induced trauma.  This type of trauma will often lead, later, to fanatical opposition against the ideas
the victim had become deluded into believing had brought on his or her earlier emotional pain.

The web page author (main page of of web site referenced ) posted with a fictitious
name in the newsgroup alt.paranormal, and wrote on his web page that he has a
"personal axe to grind with these New Age frauds."  He writes that a
grandparent had been dying, and that "quacks" in health food stores took his mother's money.
He writes of people being "victimized by... New Age nonsense."  He seems concerned
about "billions of dollars" being wasted on "ineffective treatments."  His problem, it seems,
includes the sale of homeopathic medicines, amongst other items.

Elsewhere, there has been a great deal of controversy about homeopathy in connection
with the Randi so-called "challenge."

I asked this person why he posts with a fictitious name.  He wrote that he did not want
to be called at all hours by believers who were hateful.  He constantly accuses others
of alleged expressions of hatred, and that appears to be a projection of his own problems.

Here's some comment about the above referenced web site:

             From: "Bodene" <JeffroDoeNOSPAM@jeffsmail.com>
             Newsgroups: alt.paranormal, alt.meditation, alt.consciousness.mysticism,
                                  alt.paranet.metaphysics, alt.yoga
             Subject:  Re: What the "New Age" Really Is
             Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:00:29 -0500
             Message-ID: <8l7i54$ng0$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

[I'm cutting parts of this, and the following, out for the sake of brevity. GOOGLE can be referenced for
 complete copies of posts.]

Bodene wrote:

"...you dedicate an entire website to insulting people whose beliefs you clearly don't understand.
I saw no intelligent discussion on the topic. ...you pick [ed] out 3 or 4 bits and things about
Heaven's gate, unicorns, and UFO researchers, then lump [ed] ALL new age followers into
the same group. Heaven's Gate...people.. a suicide cult... I, and others I know in this area, aren't
anything like all those names and insulting descriptions you spew forth on your page."

"...sounds like new agers threaten your belief. Rather than seeing the good things that these beliefs
encourage, you pick and choose a few then lump it all together and label it 'New Age.'"
 

Bodine had written:

...to call New Age explorers moronic..and addle-pated kooks? Sounds
to me people who study NewAge philosophies threaten your beliefs. Care
to expand on your comment?

                           Absolutely!  [then a web site was referenced]

Bodine had written:

It strikes me as odd that you read and post to newsgroups that are in the
New Age category, since you feel so negative about the subject.

As I quoted Steve Reiser above

                  My perception is they are no different
                  than Bible thumpers beating your door
                  down to convince you to join their
                  religion.

That ties in with what Bodine wrote, above:

It strikes me as odd that you read and post to newsgroups that are
in the New Age category, since you feel so negative about the subject.

Here are other comments, snipped for brevity, about the web site and other activities of "Lou Minatti"...

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal, alt.meditation, alt.consciousness.mysticism,
                     alt.paranet.metaphysics, alt.yoga
       From: james@tarotbygin.com (James Young)
       Subject: Re: What the "New Age" Really Is
       Organization: Marke Of The Rose http://www.tarotbygin.com

       Message-ID: <evne5.39207$6y5.26025158@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
       Date:  Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:30:02 GMT

...Over time I learned that not everything that seems "kooky" to the closed
mind is neccessarily superstitious nonsense.

...what possible good comes from spreading hate and bias about people
who happen to believe differently from you? Are you hoping to convert people
by belittling them? It's much easier to influence people by the life you lead
rather than the things you say to or about them.

...I find it a bit silly and overdone as well but as with most of the page you
seem to take this small sampling of the few in the community who are really
'out there' and make the claim that we are all that way. This is what I take
exception to. I see no point or possible good in this form of bigotry or any
other for that matter.

--------------

alt.paranormal, alt.meditation, alt.consciousness.mysticism, alt.paranet.metaphysics, alt.yoga
From: james@tarotbygin.com (James Young)
Subject: Re: What the "New Age" Really Is
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:47:53 GMT

...You obviously have no interest in the paranormal and metaphysic
and believe that those of us who do are a bunch of kooks yet you
obviously spend a great deal of time in discussion groups devoted to
those topics and have even spent alot of time and effort on a website
denouncing all who do have an interest in these topics. This is
behavior that some would find, well, kooky. :)

I for one do not, as you say, throw away all the good that science and reason
has brought to our modern world. The advancements of science and technology
have given us all a much better life. We live longer and healthier than at any
other time in our history, we have reached out to the stars and learned of the
composition of many of the elements which make up the physical universe but at
the same time if science and reason had all of the answers we wouldn't be
getting told a different story every other week about what foods are good for
us and what are not. To be truly open minded one has to accept all
possibilities and study not only what's new but also what might seem to others
to be nonsense. If it had not been for a couple of "kooks" doing some
non-mainstream thinking we wouldn't have airplanes today.

--

Marke of the Rose  -  Li'l Shoppe O' Magick
Shopping and more for followers of alternative
and nature based spiritual paths.
http://www.tarotbygin.com        ICQ# 347840

Note: "Magick" of that spelling usually denotes a satanic enterprise.

          I do not condone "Magick" practices.  God's word expressly forbids it.
 
 

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