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Subject: Analysis of PSF motives and attitudes (part 7) <was> Re: [alt.paranormal] Rational Investigation FAQ

Part 7:  The paranoia of the PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATIC (PSF) -- fundamentalism



A.           Fundamentalism and the "either-or" mentality



Are these people living in fear of the way the world is progressing with the paranormal?

Here is what The Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) writes to their members:

The work of CSICOP and the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER has never been more urgently needed. I am writing today because we need your
immediate help - not just to close our annual deficit (although it is absolutely necessary that we do that), but also to respond - in
force - to the new media onslaught.)
Note how this help is "urgently needed," and this so-called "media onslaught."  What are they so afraid of?
Millions of other Americans aren't just seeing. They are believing.
That's about TV Documentaries of the paranormal.  That is akin to religious fundamentalists writing against exposure to Satanic influence, alarmed that people might believe in Satan.

CSICOP writes of...

....when unfounded claims start seducing minds. to do that, we need  your help today.
Yes, isn't that what all the ranting on USENET is about.  They rant about "unfounded claims" and they go outside
their own sphere of influence to do it.  Others write of paranormalists and astrologers "seducing" the minds of
young people.  That's just what the religious fundamentalists go on with their paranoia about.

But then, isn't this about, as Robert Anton Wilson terms it, the fundamentalist materialist?

Purchase The New Inquisitionby Robert Anton Wilson

Indeed, as quoted on the WEB page referenced above, someone else called CSICOP's writing a...


A BLACK AND WHITE way of thinking is, in fact, the reality of a person.. Some would call it their "perspective."

The following words work hand-in-hand with BLACK OR WHITE:

          fundamentalism      any religion

         orthodoxy              in religion and medicine

         science                  excluding psychology, statistics, and usually Quantum Physics.
                                      so that is thus "orthodox"

It's fundamentalism, whether in a FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN, or those who call
themselves "skeptics." Both are fixated upon facts. To both a fundamentalist and a "skeptic,"
it's all they want:

                                         THE FACTS

The Holy Word of God, to the Christian Fundamentalist is, just that, entirely true. The fact is that the
entire book is true.  However, to the so-called "skeptic," for the most part it seems not to be.
However, the "science" (which is actually scientism) to most of these so-called "skeptics" is treated
as a bible.  Such ideas,  those of man's intellect, are fallable.  The Holy Word of God is
infallible.  Jesus said:

                                      "Heaven and Earth shall pass away,
                                       but my words shall not pass away."

                                       Matt. 24:35

To Joseph Campbell, whether Jesus Christ existed or not is not material. The MYTH was the essence of
truth, to him, whether it, in fact, happened or not. The same is true of readers of Carlos Castenada, about
whether certain things happened. Whether a person named "Don Juan" actually existed on the Mexican
desert is not the issue,rather what the teachings are, and what they mean to certain people.

To both the fundamentalist and the so-called skeptic,

                                        THE FACTS

are all that matter. Fundamentalists take literal meaning from every word in their books, whether Hindu, Moslem or Christian.

The fundamentalism of the faithful Christian is warranted.  The words are of God, if it's an uncorrupted translation.  There is
some symbolism, especially in prophecy.

A Fundamentalist must believe all parts of the Bible, the Koran or whatever. If any say they believe only part, the rest of their
group will consider them "heretics."

                                       EITHER - OR

                                       Either the whole book is correct, or we cannot trust any of it.

The scientific method, is the orthodox Scientist's Bible. The Pseudo-Skeptic-Fanatics use doctrines to
determine reality, and they rigidly adhere to them.  "Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary proof."
Occams Razor, and other rigidly held philosophic constructs deny their own freedom to explore.

Steve Hagan in the QUEST book: _HOW THE WORLD CAN BE THE WAY IT IS cites Astronomer John Barrow's writing:

          "the practice of science...rests upon
           a number of presuppositions about the
           nature of reality."

Hagan cites 9 of the presuppositions, and then goes on to add another of his own interpretations of what axioms exist, that
of a thing being identified by itself.

The essence of what Steve Hagan writes, and which I agree with, is that when you have axioms, they must be built upon other
foundations, and even those foundations crumble eventually.  One of the axioms of ORTHODOX science is that events and matter
of the external world are separate from those observing them.  Real science is finding that the observer influences or interacts with
what he/she sees.

To give an example of what is referred to as "orthodox," I'll use a comparison to "orthodox" medicine. The old establishment of medicine,
the AMA, (American Medical Association) insists upon certain procedures as the only "authorized" for certain ailments. They even
attempt, and sometimes succeed, to take the licenses of physicians (the "heretics"). The less "orthodox," yet perfectly legal (in certain
states of the US) procedures are the "variations." That does not imply that the orthodox methods are not valid, only that there is
requirement, at times, to vary from them.

This analogy, and the message of my writing, is that orthdox science is useful when applied to certain circumstances.

Another message is that the use of science, as it is commonly utilized  today, consists of a mixture of orthodox methods and, at
times, variations from that orthodoxy.

Message-Id: <199911211340.HAA09659@x27.deja.com>
From: Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com>

Subject: Re: Analysis of PSF motives and attitudes (part 8) <was> Re: [alt.paranormal]
             Rational Investigation FAQ <was> Re: Analysis of Dan's motives and attitudes
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:40:50 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.astrology,alt.paranet.ufo,talk.religion.newage

PART 8 --- The PSF say astrologers, paranormalists, and UFO
           researchers need "help."

In article <3837824f.37380943@news2.psn.net>,

  xyz@psn.net wrote:

> >Dan Kettler <dan@psicounsel.com> wrote:
> >First, what is "PSF"?
> PSF is Dan-speak. Many cults redefine and make up terms to isolate
> their followers from the rest of society -- it is a very effective
> brainwashing technique for keeping believers isolated from those who
> are in the best position to help them.

Sage, I was thinking that my next, part 8, of this series should
be about the fact that PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF) think that
paranormalists need "help."  Then, about the same time, you write
of how ready you, as a 'skeptic,' "are in the best position to
help" those you consider less fortunate.

            "...in the best position to help them."

Yes, here we have another of the attitudes. I have explained other
attitudes in different (parts 1 through 7) portions of this
discourse on this page...


I cannot speak for all other paranormalists, but I do not have any
emotional need to help you or others with similar views, Sage.
I do not care what you believe, or do not, regarding the paranormal.

Most others, from my observation, do not care either.

I do, however, care about the salvation of your soul.

"Pseudo-Skeptic" is not "Dan-speak."  It was commonly used,
especially on the Net, long before I started posting.
The word "fanatic" is an obviously accurate definition for
the main activity from pseudo-skeptics in alt.paranormal for
years, and illustrated in portions of parts 1 through 7 of
this (so far 8 part) discourse.

As for the "followers" you mention, above.  I have none, and
have not sought any.  It is the PSF that have organizations
and followers.  Some PSF do not affiliate with any organization,
but they are followers of whom they read and hear.


        ...misusing words like "censorship" and "spam"
        to suit your own agenda.

Sage, that is exactly what the PSF do, misuse words like "censor"
and "spam," and twist them constantly.  I have documented that
on my WEB PAGE...


Additionally, with the NCAT page I've proven quite clearly, with
references to NANAU posts, that the PSF have misused the word


          I offer as proof a short analysis of your link...


> You state, "This is a form of censorship, discouraging people,
> frightening them, so that they do not write to the properly designated
> newsgroups. It is also censorship when the derogatory writing about
> these proponents of astrology, the paranormal, UFO research, New Age
> ideas, is believed.  That is because people pay less attention to
> them, given the accusations of them being 'kooks,' and so forth"
> I take issue with almost everything in that paragraph as being either
> apparently delusional or mistaken:
> "This is a form of censorship...". If it legally was censorship, you
> could take issue with the American Civil Liberties Union and have them
> defend you for free (think of all that positive publicity Dan!)...

The Civil Liberties Union matter you discuss is irrelevant.

I discussed the word "censorship," and so did others who are
quoted on WEB PAGES.  If the reader wishes to, they may
look at the NCAT page, then click near the top to the "dictionary"
reference.  I'll not repeat discussions that have already taken
place, settled completely, and which people can reference.

        Net Censorship and Terrorism (NCAT)



Now, we shall examine another example of the "help" that
PSF have to offer those they consider misguided, helpless
and in need of what they consider enlightenment from those
who think they are so much more aware...

The following at http://www.psicounsel.com/page9328-a.htm
A rebuttal to the following is linked from this URL.

From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@sprynet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,sci.skeptic
Subject: CSICOP groupie Gary Posner illustrates
         the essence of "skepticism"
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 03:38:19 -0700

Dr. Gary Posner, MD and cult leader of the Tampa Bay Skeptics wrote the
following in "Faulty Sense of Reality", published in "Skeptical
Inquirer", 3(2), p. 79:

"[Believers in the paranormal may be] afflicted with a thought disorder
that manifests in... a faulty sense of reality... [their] irrational
behavior... may be more compatible with a diagnosis of ambulatory
schizophrenia... than with mere naivete."

So, once again, we see the basic pseudoscientific line of argumentation
of the "skeptics": instead of addressing the claims with the specificity
demanded of the scientific method and the protocols of logical debate,
Posner chooses to assert that his opponents suffer from a pathological
medical condition, a bold claim for which Posner apparently has no
burden of proof. Posner, a self-styled "skeptic" forgets that in
science, criticisms of claims must be specific, not vague attacks --
much less vague attacks on mental stability.

Posner, like most "skeptics", will cloak the shocking irrationality of
his amazingly pseudoscientific claim in the holy robes of "science",
thus lending a false sense of scientific legitimacy to an approach more
consistent with witch hunts and crowd madness than with the scientific
methodology which he ironically claims to defend. In reality, he only
denigrates that which he purports to promote.

Thank you, Posner, for illustrating the essence of "skepticism" in a way
that is highly effective in discrediting any sense of objectivity and
scientific rationality that you might have hoped to enjoy. Of course,
your fellow skeptic cult members will simply laugh and congratulate you,
but that's only to be expected.

How did the scientific community morally deteriorate to such a level
where base instinct overrides the logical faculties? Posner's comments
are the antithesis of scientific methodology and logical debate, yet
CSICOP promotes such intolerable, fanatical viewpoints nevertheless, all
while cloaking their zealous agenda of dogmatic fascism in the ruse of
objective science.

-- Brian Zeiler


     Psychics, Astrologers, UFOs,
    Mysticism and the Newsgroups
          What's happening?


In article <paranormal/rational_942924631@rtfm.mit.edu>,
  Sherilyn <Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk> wrote:

        I offer it as of potential use mainly
        to people wondering why alt.paranormal
        is in such constant upheaval.

This is part 9.  The other 8 parts are at...


PART 9:  Fanaticsm -- fundamentalism -- doctrines

Looking at the psychology of the pseudo-skeptic-fanatic (PSF),
the other parts of this discourse answer the question as to
"why alt.paranormal is in such constant upheaval."

In part 7, I pointed out the fundamentalist mentality of the
pseudo-skeptic-fanatic, (PSF) or as Robert Anton Wilson terms,
"fundamentalist materialist" in his book, THE NEW INQUISITION.
I pointed out that there are doctrines of this PSF group.  Later in this
post, I will examine some of the doctrines of the PSF more carefully.

To the FUNDAMENTALIST, their delusion is that doctrines
are solid, and that one may rely upon them, as axioms,
to determine what is real and how reality is constructed.
I discussed this in greater detail in part 7.

To the religious fundamentalist, this translates to their
bible containing the absolute truth, word-for-word.

The same mechanism works for the religious fundamentalist, as
for the materialist fundamentalist.  Both seek a simple
"either-or" solution to nearly every problem.  Reality is
much more complex than that, and the natural observation is
that there are shades of gray, not just black or white.

This sort of rigidity of thought is dangerous.  It is what
has led to witch hunts, to the inquisition, and to the
fanaticsm I wrote of in part 7 of this discourse regarding
CSICOP pseudo-skeptic activities.  It is not what these
people believe or not that leads to fanaticsm, but the
mind-set, that of fundamentalism, and a belief that there
way is the best way, the true way, and that all others
should conform for their own good.

It is a crusade, a holy one, to SAVE others from themselves,
and it is, pure and simple, delusion.  No-one needs to be
saved.  People decide what they want to learn about,
what they want to believe, and the right people, the
right books, or whatever sign is always naturally
available for them.

The target of the PSF and the religious fundamentalists
hatred is different because of beliefs.  The PSF think
the psychics and astrologers are frauds, and harmful
to the gullible, and should be stopped.  They also believe
and have acted to see that paranormal documentaries on
TV are stopped, The religious fundamentalists have wanted
to wipe out Satanism and Witchcraft.

Sherilyn wrote:

        I offer it as of potential use mainly
        to people wondering why alt.paranormal
        is in such constant upheaval.

DK:  It is in such constant upheaval because of the fanaticism
     of INTOLERANT BIGOTS, no less bigoted than those who
     murdered witches and so-called witches in Salem.

DK:  This INTOLERANCE and BIGOTRY is what leads them to a
     compulsion to CONTROL NEWSGROUPS.  I've documented
     evidence of this FANATICAL and OBSESSIVE desire to

          Net Censorship and Terrorism (NCAT)



DK:  It is what leads them to attempt control of TV
     programming, as I outlined and proved with links
     in part 7.

To anyone on a crusade, some thing, some god, some ideal, is
their truth.  They sacrifice all of themselves, and anyone who
is in their way, for what they think is the good of all.
In that endeavor, their belief usually leads them to act as
though they can dominate anyone and everything in their pursuit.

There is no higher morality above the mission they wish to
accomplish.  Whether they speaks the truth or falsehood
is of no importance, if either of the two will accomplish
their aims of propaganda more efficiently.

The reputations of people do not matter to them.  Anyone
who interferes with them by exposing their methods or
madness becomes a target of lying defamation.

Look at the INQUISITION.  In the name of a diety who
forbade murder, the fanatics murdered people.  Morality
and righteousness are replaced by the cause, and indeed,
the cause becomes righteousness in their deluded minds.

It is because of that lack of morality that the PSF assume
ownership of the INTERNET.  They don't actually own it, but
their attitude shows through their actions that they assume
it.  Carefully taking your time browsing through my /news web
pages and links, NCAT, or DEJANEWS www.deja.com will enable you
to see this.

To answer your question, again, Sherilyn, that is "why
alt.paranormal is in such constant upheaval."  It is
dominated by fanatics.

As I've written many times, I do not care what Pseudo-
Skeptic-Fanatics believe.  My only aim has been to
educate PROPONENTS OF THE SUBJECTS, paranormal, astrology,
UFO research, and New Age ideas reading these newsgroups,
about what measures they may take to no longer have to be
intimidated from posting, and to suggest what they may do
to bring the newsgroups to a condition that shows a
predominance of the culture they desire.

I've also endeavored to educated ADMINS as to the true
nature of what occurs in these newsgroups, and they have
lately been opening their minds to the facts, rather than
the propaganda spewed by PSF.  Readers may look to the
/news site in the signature of this post to see all of
this information.


Let us examine one of the black-white, either-or rigid doctrines
of the PSF:

     "Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary proof"


     Let us imagine a  group of people on an island
     somewhere, way out in the Pacific.

     They use telepathy regularly amongst themselves.

     Their experience is that is is *not* extraordinary
     to *them.*

     Imagine a "skeptic" coming to visit their island.
     The natives are friendly, and like to communicate
     with outsiders.  They have a spoken language they
     hardly use.  Let's imagine that laughter is
     a common thing amongst these people.

     The "skeptic" tells a leader through an interpreter,
     "I hear you use telepathy commonly."  The leader
     laughs, "Yes," he says, "we do all the time."  The
     "skeptic" says, "Well, I'd like to see that.  Could
     you 'transmit' to your son, the little boy, to
     come here."  The boy comes over, looking at his
     father, an inquisitive look, like *what do you want*?
     Then the "skeptic" asks, "Well that was good, but
     I think there might have been hand signals.  We have
     to do a laboratory experiment here because
     'extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.'"

What do you think the response of the leader would be?  How would
you respond in that person's place?  What would you think?  How
would you feel if you knew your own experience was valid all your
life, to not only yourself, but the culture of an entire island?

Me, I'd laugh.  I'd say, "Extraordinary, are you joking"?

The point is that the word "extraordinary" is a relative term.
Since it can only be defined by the criteria of the one
requiring it.

It was written in a public posting that it was "extraordinary"
if it was outside of accepted "science."  What is accepted science?
That's controversial.  Here is where the Pseudo-Skeptic-Fanatic
goes to his/her "bible," whatever accepted criteria they have
made up that defines "accepted."  It could be a certain type of
publication that what they consider "respected" scientists'
findings are published in.  There is usually some basis for
rigid doctrines of what science allegedly is, or is not.

As in the above example of an island culture, isolated from the
rest of "society," how could one determine what was *actually*

It's relative.  It's not either-or, black or white.  Reality
is much more expansive than the "scientism"
fundamentalists are usually willing to see.

In the matter of right and wrong, being saved or lost, that is real.


    Psychics, Astrologers, UFOs,
    Mysticism and the Newsgroups
          What's happening?

B. Fundamentalism as it relates to dualistic thinking, or as I call it, "binary" limitations.

To expound on the word "dualism," we'll look at part of  Raymond Karczewski's post, archived in GOOGLE.

Subject: Re:  From the Mouths of the Spiritually Blind to God's Ear!!
Date: February 6, 2000
Message-ID: <389d4ade.293320527@news.meganews.com>


RK writes of the...

              " ...energy of a dualisticly split "ignorant
                linear intellect" in the act of either face-saving
                rationalization or an attempt to gain power through
                its battle with its misperceived "Opposite."

DK comment:

                When one examines the actions of the fundamentalist, whether that
                of the Christian, Moslem, Jew, or an Athiest pseudo-skeptic, they
                show consistently evidence of a "right-wrong," "us vs them" "correct
                vs incorrect" perception of reality.  The limited number of possibilites are two.

                 Metaphors, for these people, are difficult to understand.  That two opposite
                 mottos can be equally true, also escapes their understanding.  Trying to explain
                 paradox to these people is an exercise in futility.  One of my favorite ideas,
                 presented in the movie, WHAT DREAMS MAY COME, with Robin
                 Williams was, "when you lose, you win," and "when you win, you lose."
                 To the binary thinker, one either loses or wins, not both.  There are rules,
                 and there are no rules, are equally true and apply according to the circumstances,
                 as shown in the story.  It's best understood through the old saying, "rules
                 are meant to be broken."

                 To the binary thinking doctor, there is one correct procedure to help
                 a person with blocked arteries.  In their minds, any doctor practicing a different
                 procedure should lose his/her license.  There you have, in fact two
                 possibilities. In the past, for years doctors using alternative procedures
                 were sometimes thrown in jail.  The fact is, there are a number of possibilities
                 for many medical problems.

                 To the binary thinking doctor, there's the mind, and there is the body.
                 One, and the other, and that makes two.  To that mind-set, they are
                 seperate.  Either the patient has a mental problem, or a physical one.

                 Holistic doctors, however, find that often enough, the body interacts
                 with the mind, and a helping of the person's attitude affects the body.
                 Likewise, there are organic problems that produce mental illness.  It's
                 been found that certain vitamins and minerals often help to stabilise
                 the mentality.

DK: The bigoted mind-set is binary.  To the white bigot, if a person has black skin, that color is wrong.
        To the black bigot, if the other has white skin, it's the wrong color. Right and wrong are only two
        possibilities. In my experience for nearly a decade, exchanging ideas with PSF on USENET, I
        have found that most of them have two categories, those who find validity in psychic phenomena.
        These are kooks, and generally inferior people, the bottom of the gene pool to these bigots.
        Then, there is the other category, those who do not think psychic phenomena can be possible,
        and these are the "right" kind of people, like themselves.  That, of course, is bigotry.

DK: As a metaphor, to the binary thinker there can be no shades of grey, and no colors other
        than black or white.

DK:  Other investigators, not just myself, find that many PSEUDO-SKEPTIC-FANATICS (PSF) expressions are bigoted in nature.

DK: A favorite idea of pseudo-skeptics is OCCAMS RAZOR.

DK:  http://www.commoditytradingadvisor.com/occams-razor.htm

         "If you have two equally likely solutions to a trading or day trading problem, pick the simplest."

DK:  Note the two reference.

DK: However...

DK QUOTE OF ABOVE WEB SITE: : "The principle of simplicity as it related to the financial markets and trading, works
                                                                as a heuristic rule-of-thumb but some people quote it as if it is an axiom of physics.
                                                                It is not. It can work well in philosophy or particle physics, but less often in areas
                                                                like cosmology or psychology, where things usually turn out to be more complicated
                                                                than you ever expected."


       Binary describes a numbering scheme in which there are only two
       possible values for each digit: 0 and 1.

DK: The computer uses 2 values - 0 and 1.  When a person limits themselves to linear, binary,
        thinking, they can become bigoted, cynical, and focused on material reality to the exclusion
        of any deeper understanding of a spiritual dimension.  They often believe there is no possibility
        for anyone to experience paranormal manifestations.  They can become, as Robert Anton
        Wilson calls them, "Materialist Fundamentalists."  To these people, "science" has a fixed, fundamental,
        definition, with no variation.  Their definition is far from that of the dictionary.  See a
        description of the book, THE NEW INQUISITION at www.amazon.com  Others blindly believe
        in a concept of spirituality, or paranormal manifestation, but their thinking is also limited by dualism.

DK: Computers cannot perceive beyond what they have been programmed.  One cannot
        program the infinite, the divine, into a computer.  People, animals, and all life are part of the divine..
        Programming, or brainwashing, of people has covered up, or stifled, the the divine..

DK: People can uncover the infinite, the divine, within themselves.

RK writes:

The intellect [or linear thinking] is an appropriate instrument to use when involved in "Technical" problem solving and when "muddling" through communications with the spiritually "blind," who have eyes that do not see. What the spiritually blind are incapable of seeing is that the dead concept is never that living essence which it reflects. In all matters beyond the technical, "Satan," the Intellect, rules the lives of the spiritually blind as the opposer, the creator and perpetuator of man's dualistic HELL. The "spiritually sighted" see it. Why don't you?
DK:  Why describe this as "HELL" ?

DK:   When one is placed in a physical prison, and unable to to explore
          beyond the bars, it's often unpleasant.  It's "HELL"  In the same way,
          it's unpleasant, or hell, to the person who chooses to allow their MIND
          to be imprisoned in a dualistic MIND-SET.

NF:  .. the dead concept is never that living essence which it
      reflects' is a study in bad english. Please rewrite
      your sentence...

NF:  'Truth' is a mathematical term, by the way. Just for fun,
        can you name me a 'truth' in regards to a breed of dog?

DK COMMENT: Can it be that the only method this person
       knows to communicate with himself, or anyone else, is
       through binary (linear-dualistic) thinking?



RK: Let man not Fall for a New World Order.

RK: Let mankind Rise to a New World Consciousness!

BK: The idea of the New World Consciousness is part of the NEW WORLD ORDER's program.

BK: On the one hand you write you don't want a NEW WORLD ORDER.  Then you, unwittingly, promote it.

BK: "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

RK: Raymond Karczewski http://www.arkenterprises.com

Click here for page 3


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The use of 2 values 0 and 1 is the essence of the data and programming.  The combination of zeros and ones process more complex information.

  2             10
  3             11
  4             100
  5             101
  6             110
  7             111
  8             1000

The above only shows the beginning stages of information and programming progress from the zero and one's.  Further on, there's the hex code, and then on to a programming language, further still to an operating system, and then the interfaces (such as keyboard and monitor) with the user.  The basic interaction is with a very complex CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, or CPU.

The small unit of data is a bit, and that is one of two -- 0 or 1.  Computers manipulate/store data, and instruct, in bytes. For the most part, there are eight bits in a byte. In the digital world, storage, data, processing, and connection with others, the 0 and 1 are considered "low" and "high."